THRIVE with High-Performing Culture | Andrew Freedman | Episode 173

Andrew ran a walk through the show so great to have you here today,

00:00:06

Speaker

thanks god, I I know I’ve been thinking about this conversation, not just today, but over the past week I’ve been prepping for this listening, some of your previous podcast it, and I love what you do about what you stand for your principles and how you think about leadership organizations. You know building culture, and so it’s going to be great dialogue. Thanks for having me

00:00:26

Speaker

wow, that’s a geezer, I’m the one! That’s thrown out the compliments at the beginning of the show,

00:00:31

Speaker

oh, where to start from here

00:00:34

Speaker

coming off, flustered and stuff. Not ever I appreciate it. I appreciate what you are bringing to the table tonight and not for me, but for the are out there in talking about young. Predominantly your book thrive appreciate the copy, by the way, awesome breed from the listener out there october to grab your own

00:00:54

Speaker

copy. It is in the show notes, and the show notes today can be found at moving forward leadership. Dot com forward, slash one, seven, three one, seventy three,

00:01:04

Speaker

and that is we’re, tugboat thrive. It which is named your book but thrive with a high performing culture, so much, which is awesome because protect my peak performance here at the peak performance leadership podcast, so high high performing culture, peak performance now overtake or risk losing tomato tomato. We’re saying the same thing.

00:01:24

Speaker

So my first question is: why is that so important to you that high performing culture that you? Why is it so important that you had them write a book about it

00:01:35

Speaker

or me? This goes back over twenty plus years of doing what I do and as I studied people since I’ve been in a consulting role and really even before that fascinates got y yo how hard people work and everybody goes to work everyday and they to do good work and they want to

00:01:54

Speaker

find meaning in what they do and they want to find a purpose and they want to bring value. They want to go home

00:02:00

Speaker

their family with their head on the pillow at night and know that they did a good job. There were matter, and the reality is that many people research supports us over. Seventy percent of workers in the united states and even more broadly disengaged, and what they do they’re, not going home. The way that I describe- and it’s all I’ve been wondering, study

00:02:20

Speaker

key in helping organizations figure out better ways to get people feeling more like this is so in the work that I’ve done. I’ve I’ve recognized realize got access to design systems. The whole leaders find a better way to get people more me. It’s it’s not. Okay, in my opinion, for people to go home

00:02:40

Speaker

feeling less, not more killing the pleaded, not energized feeling like crap about their contribution. Frankly, not knowing if they matter during the day. That’s just not! Okay! For me, that’s not what I stand for. That’s a big reason why I read this book

00:02:55

Speaker

that feeling is so predominant and so prevalent in today, of just people punching and punching the clock you know doing the grind show up hate what to do for essentially half of your waking day at minimal yeah

00:03:15

Speaker

kiki like yeah, I mean. Does the oh? Okay, you take the standard person. The standard you know, did the template a person it’s in. I was asleep it’s an eight hour work day and it’s eight hours of other stuff. That’s twenty four hours right there, so he removed the sleep because that the owners visit that

00:03:36

Speaker

use time does matter, you’re sleeping so sixteen hours left and eight of its. I work in eight of it’s doing other stuff commuting spending time with your family, etc. So, half your waking day, you spin at something that you effectively to spot. That is a crime over the past

00:03:55

Speaker

fifteen months least the time of this recording and it’s going to go while we’re still working through this pandemic, and so people are commuting you’re not going to the author commuters from their bedroom to the kitchen or the bedroom, to the office of the living room, dining room, and so some of that decompression time where people just think on their dry or listen to a podcast.

00:04:15

Speaker

For god sakes or just clear their mind. They don’t even have that now. So what what our research over the hundreds of companies we studied the past fifteen months is showing us is that many people, most in fact, are working up to four more hours a day and getting one email earlier or staying online later there just is no escape them. So now you take eight

00:04:35

Speaker

hours and make it twelve you’re. Really talking about half of somebody’s waiting hours is it’s just unbelievably depleting mean the number of people who are on anxiety, medication, stress, relief, sleep quality is poor. That’s not high performing individual individuals high performing organizations, just not a starting weight of raw, but there isn’t

00:04:55

Speaker

better way, is a better way.

00:04:59

Speaker

Leah.

00:05:00

Speaker

Here’s yeah! I got it! It’s less scratches! You said, there’s a better way, so, let’s dive into or was a better way of luck like because of I’m sure a lot of companies out there like. Well, I don’t know if they’re actually doing work. I don’t know, if know I’m getting the output or whatever. So what is this better way of working, especially

00:05:20

Speaker

what you hinted at right now? The ongoing pandemic- because I agree, I don’t think- were restarted- see the pinhole light, but I don’t think it’s as big as what it’s made out to be right now, I think, renders for a bit of a longer haul, which don’t get me wrong. I want this thing be over is quick as the next person I’m ready to go back to watching hockey in

00:05:40

Speaker

real life in a bunch other stuff subs. Let’s we’re going to ask. Was it what back this the whole hybrid word later during the conversation will see where the dialogue goes, but in terms of a better way, yeah you yeah just summer nuggets from the book you imagine to our listeners, live on. Much like

00:06:00

Speaker

you knew everybody was listening, this the walk away with immediate mass noun in spain, but in the play right away, what is just an organizing framework or how people think and yell we call it. I call: is this right lap thinking instead of left to right what I mean by that is most leaders, most organizations, they were left or right

00:06:21

Speaker

and what that means is they start thinking about our you know? What are what are the tasks that people need to create? What are the tests? People need to do every, and so that’s why you see so many leaders focused on especially in this remote environment, where they can physically see their workers in the office. They don’t know what time your shower alone, many organs,

00:06:41

Speaker

asians traditional, still got big wearing business equals work. If I can see, you show up at a certain mind that equate your working mom. If I see you when you’re, obviously that means you’re delivering value the accident doesn’t left to right. Painting is more about what did the task you’re doing? How do I could do more of those tasks, and hopefully

00:07:01

Speaker

he you’ll deliver some value, their needs and goals and help us win. That’s a that’s a backwards. Busting way of thinking better way is working right. Lap would start with beaters really helping your people understand. What does success look like and I’m talking about organizational vision. Where are we going? Was the purpose of our company not to make a

00:07:21

Speaker

malcolm really? Why are we here? What are our key goals in our strategies and what does that look like it, his next to every single person in the organization? So I know my role, how that connects to where we’re trying to go nobody, what is success? They were, they move one click to the left and you go okay.

00:07:38

Speaker

If this is successful the company, then, in my role, what’s the value I need to create need to produce one really clear that out outcomes but need produce. It could be revenue, but it can also be body relationships. It could be, you know, type of trust I built in our customers. It could be pipeline of innovation.

00:07:58

Speaker

There are things I need to produce. Then we can focus on the tasks I need to do and influence in the world. Hobby get those past better. That’s a much more notches, efficient hope fishing way to do it and it gets individuals and leaders focused on metrics that matter most and so trying to measure everything under the sun, most of which truly has nothing to

00:08:18

Speaker

do with building performance are engaging.

00:08:23

Speaker

I really enjoy what you had the talk, but there is funny when you’re talking at the beginning in her diaper brown, your left but you’re right, the laughed and leaders know watching their employees and you are they working what times it odds at nine, o, nine o’ five james is walking in ours. No three,

00:08:42

Speaker

fifty five and jos heading out the door.

00:08:45

Speaker

I refer, those, u clock, watchers, and I remember I had one as a boss

00:08:51

Speaker

for two years, while ago now

00:08:54

Speaker

wow was ever clock watcher I’d, walk in at like nine o three. When you my work hours, I was nine four and even like up nine o three a’s got an ivy league, yeah yeah yeah. It’s now three, because I spent three minutes one using the washroom. As I came in and to having conversation with someone in the hallway

00:09:13

Speaker

about something but yeah it’s I know three anima does had got it or you know it’s three. Fifty five and oh, my god, I’m tongue to punch it in one, were gonna achieve in the next five minutes. That’s coming of any value in. I need to get home to my young kids, so it it drove me nuts, not only wrong. It was a nice guy and did some

00:09:34

Speaker

good things for me, but that aspect of him drove me nuts, to the point where I started actually like circumventing. So it actually like slip out thrill back way that we had that wouldn’t walk by his office when else had punched out a little bit early or come in and and a vice versa, and he b, o n e walk around, and suddenly I be at my desk him. They go

00:09:54

Speaker

your ear in my cabinet for a while, but the reality is yeah. I’ve been in for like two minutes

00:10:00

Speaker

lumpy about one of the things money, but what you’re describing is you by a in at noon? Every every individual, combined workarounds were hacks in the dangerous thing about measurements. Is if people don’t understand why something be measured? Why it matters our options open your wall. How it adds value me

00:10:20

Speaker

want wanted happening, will give your sales example is reeling from a client. It’s some with it’s worker. They rolled out a new crm solution with salesforce dot com job. I love that solution when it’s when it’s been bigger riot in your minds to a business goals and strategies in a really robust, powerful, but one of the things this company did is they both out? Is they said to theirs

00:10:40

Speaker

sellers? You know you need to enter fifty five. Zero continue contact every day, and this was kinda like pharmaceutical industries are they’re. Talking about the need entering the eu contacts day was consistent. Recalling I’m august opener it you have waited, it was all about. Achievements in the process was only about the nuts.

00:11:00

Speaker

You must get this universe, not in sales, was about avenue and we’re going to publish list every day to people that don’t hit their fifty, so the behavior they got organization from their people, as you can imagine, was they just started entering bogus contracts and rendering fifteen made up physician named the biggest out of old. None immediately contacted call it.

00:11:20

Speaker

Oh, they were complain and they stayed on the boss’s radar boss wasn’t really checking to see people real conversations or they were material contacts were no. They actually were real pipeline opportunities and some about avenues when those raps about a the company. The next day offers me keeping their territory was inheriting a book of hundreds of my

00:11:40

Speaker

attacks were completely useless, focus and not useful at all. That’s the kind of behavior that leader sometimes get when they aren’t leading most effectively we’re not within not building a workforce. It’s truly engaged connected understand what needs to be done and why, and how is the emphasis god high performance, culture,

00:12:02

Speaker

game, the game design refer to it,

00:12:05

Speaker

and the second thing I want to hit on that you talked of it

00:12:10

Speaker

earlier was the need to work from right to laugh at e, starting with the end goal or whatever working backwards, and you know me, I come from a military background. I am a senior clean army officer and whenever we plan operations room and we plan anything like okay, what’s the desired end state, I

00:12:30

Speaker

e. Where do we want to end up what’s our goal and then we work our way backwards from that and I find it. I find it so surprising that it feels often like were alone in the world, doing this for my army concepts, because so few organizations actor think that way, and it just boggles my mind like

00:12:51

Speaker

re, not that great or her good but like come on. You guys can pick up on. This, too, is an is not a difficult concept, start with the end goal and work your way back. So my question is:

00:13:04

Speaker

how do you flying starting with end goal in mind working while back has enabled at your high performing culture that peak performance out there for the companies that you’ve you you’ve worked with the you consulted in the past yeah, the biggest benefit of working thinking and working right to left

00:13:24

Speaker

is it. It creates two things: clarity around what matters most where we’re going, and wine and alignments

00:13:32

Speaker

and those two things that we see when organizations are working harder than they should to achieve success or they have lower levels of engagement, were a lot of performance variants across real crosby wind up, maybe eating some of their targets, but, alas, slog to get there. They lack of clarity in line it’s when you define success.

00:13:52

Speaker

Yes, some of those elements items that I mentioned before. You got a really clear vision and repurpose your goals, your strategies, but also that what happens is organs used to be really nervous about what investments that they make? What projects and initiatives to the emission? What decisions do they know what to say or do they not need? So the goal is clear rash.

00:14:12

Speaker

Now it’s like the old, the old story about southwest airlines of they got started,

00:14:18

Speaker

and yet they talk about sprinkler. Point point: the archers the hub and spoke model, a low price, no lower cost. They wanted a turn air into your planes around another. Seventy minutes get back up in the air, get people moving, and with that, that’s a partner. What was important you can imagine with her keller the time went into a meeting and are

00:14:38

Speaker

true stories. I heard it anyway. He died. I was always thinking about what new ideas and innovations he had a staffer been set at a great idea. You get a liar airline. Let’s serve really good mood. People love good food. On airplanes and hurt said help me understand how serving right aligns. You are really want. The

00:14:59

Speaker

departures were picture around signing or low cost low cost advantage, and he said well. I guess it doesn’t right. Okay, so vocal about it. I got the next idea. Will you start right? You really clear on the definition of success in the operands, the outermost. It really makes the decision making process awaited. People were so much

00:15:19

Speaker

more. Streamlined takes all the rich in all the confusion, all the ambiguity, all politics, all the wars, all the silos out the picture that that’s what bosses better performance

00:15:32

Speaker

love it. I was actually coaching client today and factually did this with them

00:15:38

Speaker

yeah he got shiny object syndrome

00:15:41

Speaker

and, as I grew and grew this thing over here and I’m like all right now. Let’s, let’s talk, let’s talk this through at stuff, let’s see, let’s look at it from a holistic pitcher and like an I and I didn’t- do- use him for rather use me as the example like okay, unlike so if this was me too, so I would look at

00:16:00

Speaker

their son mike. Would how does my business avatar care about this doesn’t turn up, but but let’s assume others his avatar does care about. Okay, cool!

00:16:13

Speaker

I now, let’s go nats my actual clients that I have that my pool there my prospects, I’m okay, with the sound of interest to you. If they say no guess what it’s enough, I dump it and instill. Even if they say yes, then I look at it. Okay is a line, doesn’t meet ya, my values. Does it and that

00:16:33

Speaker

noise is something that I can reasonably pull off. You go through all these checklists of going through, because I have finite resources. Time being my biggest problem, I e being a side hustler and a solo foreigner, an entrepreneur. Ah and in does that

00:16:53

Speaker

he’ll help me in my end state vision and goal, and the answer is most likely going to be know as soon as they’ll. Probably five ten of working through this problem with my client is like you’re right he’s. Like total shiny object syndrome, I’m scrolling a micro yeah, you eat, you are you’re going after some

00:17:13

Speaker

ignite it does. It doesn’t make sense for you, where you’re at right now with what you’re trying to achieve in your own state goals to go after that. So that’s why I always love looking at the end you might you might have. I reinforce one of the features but eventually said I loved everything. You said at one point that is really more for your listeners to

00:17:33

Speaker

here and I was measured values. You know because there’s another sony businesses out there that you could sell to or I could sell to a truly believe- that’s what we do and in my fur does not coming out there and couldn’t help. But if they’re going with online and our guys really don’t leave the high performance culture is important. They don’t really believe that

00:17:53

Speaker

forming culture, winning culture is a true competitive advantage that I can tell you that engagement at work that impact reacts can be less than it could be or should be in, and I don’t wanna spend my time or my team style working with clients whose values don’t align with ours does make making bad people it doesn’t need. A business is going to fail. Plenty of businesses are going

00:18:13

Speaker

really really well, whose value structure doesn’t lot the just, not good clients plus net, really more for people to get down. There’s plenty of business out there be really cheesy got. You pack

00:18:27

Speaker

got to agree and I’ve turn people down just because of houses. I paused it, but bridges not good fit for now expires at reason, and often because our values, but you you kind of dovetailed into an saw lol stream path to go down, is that you know from your standpoint, was the best way to incorporate values to create a high performance culture. Guess from my standpoint

00:18:47

Speaker

point your values do matter and that it definitely helps in creating a culture in creating a high performance culture, because if you don’t care about values, suddenly people are doing whatever the hell they want, and I thought what you want yeah. Well, that’s emilio! You! You nailed your values in and of themselves.

00:19:07

Speaker

Don’t do anything meaty if you have an organization, has value in most do like look at their website and they got it. You know on the website I gotta publish in their employee handbook and maybe even like on a wall and also to go through any more at this point, but that doesn’t mean anything what what really matters is that there are associated behaviors with

00:19:27

Speaker

each value. So, for example, if we say like drive, change or have fearless agility, people need to understand contextually. What does that mean? What does that look like it so values when they’re used appropriately they’re not used as weapons they’re used to guide the way the people think the way that they make decisions? The way things ought to see

00:19:47

Speaker

use the way they deal with customers, the way the employees treat each other. This is the way that you want to use values I site before we make this decision. Does this align with our values? I’m not really sure what we should do here. I don’t know what what our values guide us think about what to do. That’s the way you young as organization organization of the founding,

00:20:07

Speaker

should for everything aspect of yeah financial performance value should be the way to go. What’s most important to us. That’s how that’s how leaders want to think about and put to use their values and vision is what pulls people be aspirational forward? Looking bowl audacious values really mean the foundation is

00:20:28

Speaker

about the organization, that’s a good! That’s a good pack and provision at the top values is known as solid bedrock.

00:20:36

Speaker

I think, will

00:20:38

Speaker

I think one of the things that get miss understood values is you kind of hinted at it now or we pull up on the wall reads in the office. They know who goes to anyone else. I’ve a good chuckle as you talk with that stuff, but really it’s like it’s values, sure you go ahead and

00:20:58

Speaker

you can put all these things up on the wall, all that stuff, but his actions. So you could say we we value this. That or the other thing put your actions, don’t speak to those words and release your values. I would argue, know it. Your actions need to represent the values that

00:21:17

Speaker

that you say that you hold dear to your heart for your organization and often these organization same one thing, but they’re actually doing something one. Eighty two that in the littlest gas, were many organizations, I’m sure you’d, seen this movie before is where you have somebody, the navy has really senior position or is ah

00:21:38

Speaker

hi producer sales war in our actually help the wall, but they are just toxic. You know what I mean when I was young, I mean when I say an and it’s it’s really accessible to say immediately. That person should be removed, various be very clear mission, visible the organization that is not tolerate. We as an were

00:21:58

Speaker

translation. If we’re gonna save our our culture, we do not tolerate others or people’s passion, desire or misogynist as humans. That is not acceptable. It is acceptable, it is tolerated. It’s not look at low or not address. Do not send your message to the rest of the libation. I promise you this from having

00:22:18

Speaker

I worked with hundreds of organizations and thousands and thousands of boys. People are, as we like to say, they’re gonna, to of your fee, they’re, not gonna, stand at the dollar theater place. Where you know we tolerate and even doors people act like jerks, it’s just not okay. That is not a high performing cultural care of the revenues on care of the rocket

00:22:38

Speaker

is on care. The earnings per share are it’s not high performance, maybe it’s my functioning, but it’s a hybrid ones.

00:22:47

Speaker

People leave organizations to leave bad bosses right, and I love that at that little segway that you set up nicely net toxicity and how much it didn’t degrade performance, an organization I lived it. I will tell you, I freaking love this. Ah, we had a a leader of one

00:23:06

Speaker

organization. I worked in who grape juice fantastic. Ah, you know, I think, we’re moving in the right direction. With that vision, we understood values be enacted our values, all the stuff. We were we’re pretty close to high performing organization. I mean really close. They were with pockets. The team I was in charge. We are definite hyper

00:23:26

Speaker

farming like who we were. It was yeah, we’re a function at a high level and then suddenly change right then built her organization. We change leaders, the overarching leaders over two years and the next one came in and we went one eighty I mean mach ten nosedive into the ground. Why? Because that was a toxic leader,

00:23:46

Speaker

complete nutter, toxic leader, enforcer right at the head? Now

00:23:52

Speaker

what I like to get your advice on out there, so we got a ladder, leaders who listen to shore senior leaders. We also have a lot of junior starting out middle managers yo between they got it boss between them and the other bosses boss.

00:24:07

Speaker

You know if their policy, their leader, is when those toxic people, what’s your best advice for them out there. You know: how do they protect their people? How can they keep the high performance going at least within their team, and why should they do about their toxic leader themselves? Yadda yadda yadda anchor few questions

00:24:27

Speaker

there, wild specific with their team, so culture is a multi faceted. Things within any organisation has multiple cultures and subcultures. So there’s a big agriculture in the organization, but then there could also be cultures that are ah the business unit level, department, level, team level, and so one of the things it can be really healthy and productive is yelling at any time

00:24:47

Speaker

team for any leader, whether it’s you like a skull worst team that brought together to work on a specific project work. It’s a persistent theme like this is my team. This is how we roll sound you’re. Always they can define what culture do they want to have? What’s the vision and what are the values for their culture in their team? Had a they want opera up there

00:25:08

Speaker

reading norm, so they can. They can have a young barba a bit of a campaign culture inside the broader ecosystem, and they can also talk about how we want to treat others outside of our team. I would wanna collaborate how we want to connect, how we to influence how we wanna make our culture not boastful way but like the nvidia, were we

00:25:28

Speaker

others go man.

00:25:29

Speaker

I want to work when they’re doing or how I get some more writing yeah. They can lead from within. Gaza is not only defined by seniority, so that’s number one is really think about what you want in your tea and work with your with your votes, to create it

00:25:44

Speaker

with a direct supervisor that is toxic.

00:25:47

Speaker

A person has cooled off. Maybe if you won the I know, and I espoused the most is just a wreck. Authentic and honest conversations always come coming from a place of carrier, so I would ask somebody who is displaying toxic behavior questions. Like I’m observing you doing this.

00:26:07

Speaker

Can you help me understand how that advances us towards our goals or other allies to our values? I want to understand whether you think I want to understand. Why do the things that you do not at a judge judgmental got away for like you’re my current boss, I’m taking my cue, should be. I want to understand how you think and how you operate. If he

00:26:28

Speaker

they see the person doing something really out of bounds, then end up. The point of address might be. I care a lot about you and solar observing seems like maybe it’s a little out of character for you, and I just want to raise your visibility because you might not be aware.

00:26:45

Speaker

So I always coming from a place of caring of you have somebody that really a jerk as the law, so they might say like

00:26:52

Speaker

talk about. Don’t ever talk to me like that, you know they lay it’s a culture retribution were attacked. Then it’s yeah. It’s it’s likely time to engage somebody from hr you yet to go through a more formal. Whatever the chain of command is whether it’s the person’s boss, first rage arba, I would get some help from a human resources. Professional

00:27:12

Speaker

really gives a house lawn is young. Are other people saying this, or am I the only one who’s experiencing this ideal? Give me a little bit of council. Is there anybody else who can support this leader in becoming a better leader? I see network really well and ultimately, ultimately elbow ultimately anthony tried everything. If the boss is just a tyrant-

00:27:32

Speaker

and you said this earlier- people don’t leave organizations daily bosses, you could a person could talk about being treasure somewhere else in the organization. That is an option to reconsider and they can also, if it’s just really out there, watching the organization tolerate this bad behavior of toxic leader. I have this issue

00:27:52

Speaker

myself. Personally, I left. I just chose a sad circle. It doesn’t belong here. It’s clearly me. The organization’s values in their behavior do not align with mine. This is not tolerable. Behavior is not acceptable. I trusted with the individual she did want to hear from me.

00:28:09

Speaker

I went to out the boss, the boss said yeah kind of shrug it off, like rabbits that person just being a person. You know things will work themselves out and this went on for a year and finally, I laughed- and I explained why I left, and it wasn’t because I laughed and said what I said, but shortly thereafter she was removed and a few other really talk to people

00:28:29

Speaker

or exit without any organization that was a win for me is I’d already lucky. It was waiting for the rest of the company. There, hopefully win win for those individuals this, maybe they were little bit lightning. Yeah wound up doing other amazing thing somewhere else. So that would be my counsel to your listeners, regardless of where they are one last thing I’ll say on the scotus you

00:28:49

Speaker

if anybody is listening here feels like war was having an epiphany and eighty. They are the toxic leader and that’s a good moment of enlightenment media time to look in the mirror and say if my people really aren’t engaged or if they’re really not performing well or if they’re really struggling our people really having a tough time getting or keeping great people. I might need to look at the mirror.

00:29:09

Speaker

I mighty das first might need to get a coach and might need to rethink my way of working, especially this work from anywhere environment is. We were talking before I seen a lot of leaders who are not really effective leaders in the in office experience who are really struggling in this work from anywhere biopic.

00:29:30

Speaker

What you’re trying to do is shoehorn their old, antiquated, ineffective management practices into this new virtual reality, and it it blown up big time in their face, and they just really need help. They really need help,

00:29:45

Speaker

there’s a lotta, great things in there. He just said where to start, I go back a little bit and I liked your approach I refer to as the year is basically priest of inquiry like coming from their standpoint of looking at the situation and just yoga trying to get in their shoes and their scene, basically in there

00:30:03

Speaker

hadn’t understand, but at the same time, you’re hoping if you’re really certain that whatever they’re doing is completely wrong. That day, you come to your senses and realize that hey, I’m being a jerk here or no. This is not how I should be acting or oh. We now know my integrity or

00:30:24

Speaker

how I operate being question, and maybe they will have their perfidy moment that you said you suggested at the end.

00:30:32

Speaker

Parents, unfortunately, is that most don’t! Ah, because there’s a lotta ego goes involved with a lot of people, and sometimes you will just don’t they don’t know, unfortunately, at the end up sucked into what I sadly refer to the abuse cycle, because they grew in cortical, grew up in an organization where this like yeast yeah,

00:30:52

Speaker

you’ve talked about was tolerate it and you go oh, this is how it is got it. I’m I’m in charge. Now I get to yellow pupil, I get the demand things of people that is unreasonable. I get to tell how much they suck and how they need to go home, cause the young voter, useless and all this other garbage that goes on out there, not realizing that.

00:31:12

Speaker

Congratulations. Much like what you said way back is that yeah, that’s gonna, get you short term productivity, but that’s not gonna achieve long term high performance and I think that’s a huge difference out there that leaders need to understand yeah. You can go ahead and get that project done

00:31:32

Speaker

on under budget no earlier than anticipated. Know this stuff by basically walking under people but where you run out of funding, is like what you said: people gonna end up voting with their feet and that does not include that does not allow for high performance teams, high performers, organizations nor high performance culture. Absolutely,

00:31:52

Speaker

I think, about people that are left behind. When people do vote with their feet, you know the ones who are you know who stay and are really high performers. They bear the brunt they pay. The price is I that’s the reward oftentimes it unintentionally leaders pay to their best people. Is they

00:32:12

Speaker

don’t murdered, bigelow stress and then ultimately, they wind up leading to it’s also very vicious cycle of waiting. Talk about that about use psychologically in it’s think you’re spot on.

00:32:24

Speaker

So it actually leads me now into an interesting point that I would fight to get your thoughts on in that is hiring for high performance yahoo for high performance culture. So how should we go about finding those the those high performers out there and bring them on so not too long ago?

00:32:45

Speaker

I had a former? U s navy seal and a former usc army officer who coauthored a book. The town were fantastic block, all about you. Finding talent, house and special forces find talent and now recruit talent bring them on. I definitely like to get your take on that.

00:33:05

Speaker

How we can find talent in terms of in with the goal of bringing people on, to bring them into this high performing culture.

00:33:15

Speaker

Yeah two two related parts to this one is in the book and try. We talk about this process and way of thinking and way of being called roll excellence, and there is an actual documented example of this on the website we created from the book, which here we can put the knows-

00:33:36

Speaker

and you said- is ice ice early orleans. I can roll excellent process really helps to clarify what excellence looks like in the role not at the task level, or we like do these days, but back to the right to left thinking. It define success in the most critical role. What are the outcomes that need to be produced?

00:33:56

Speaker

What are the measures of success less? That person is waiting in the role? What are the specific heat? Has it? People need to do to produce this value and then what are the influences that can make it harder or easier for people to do their work. So this is one packet one process. One tool set one way of thinking called rolex process.

00:34:16

Speaker

If an organization has been making a very, very clear in recruiting us whether they’re, using an external search for region, social media posts, some other kind of grass roots, yeah refuge recruiting when people are looking at the whole. Now they have a very clear understanding, more and more clear understanding of why

00:34:36

Speaker

let’s require and what value they need to produce in the world which is going to increase the quality of applicants number one as host right now I mean put just about any posting up in hundreds and hundreds of people align biggest day. Here. They want jobs, they need jobs by yeah. The job recruiter or hiring manager can be sold

00:34:57

Speaker

because they’re just trying to sift through this or they’re using pain, yoda can tracking system or some high technology platform. It is like searching for key words it, so people are just trying to game the system. P words into bypass technology, you’re missing out on the truth and the honesty, the integrity of making the maps of what is more clear

00:35:16

Speaker

earlier on what the job really requires at while the second part is use data and algorithms, you some kind of testing mechanism. We use dna diagnostics, not just for hiring but for ongoing development of incumbents in the role try to understand what motivates a person to take action, what are they

00:35:37

Speaker

or competencies? What are the behaviors, and so you could use like that matter. We use a dna one, but there’s predictive index of my there’s hoagie and a battery of assessments use something because absence of that what hiring managers and recruiters are are generally gonna by whether they admit it or not, is their gut instinct or intuition

00:35:57

Speaker

the likeability. Do I like you, do we have something in common? Do we get along? Do I see myself in you? Do you value the same things that I do and time and time again what the data supports is we stayed at hiring based on gut just does not support people look at reservation. They go oh intervals like he’s, got a ton of talent. Look at

00:36:17

Speaker

all these accomplishments. Talent is jacoby, wrote a book years ago. Called talent is overrated. Talent alone does not translate into high performance gotta. Look at all these other things or roll excellent clarity, diagnostic. That is a recipe for much more precise, hiring

00:36:36

Speaker

yeah like that whole um,

00:36:39

Speaker

you’re, basically having it in some kind of former test done like myers briggs and stopping that’s, because you can get an idea of how that person operates. Had I think, a little bit from I’d see these tests and stuff like this up had a guest on the show. Long time ago,

00:36:57

Speaker

john, my name, tattoos and then e, so woozy

00:37:02

Speaker

thought one of the thirty under thirty’s from a number years ago, and I he employed, know myers briggs into his company, and he says that’s why I got thirty under thirty, because we took this and ran with it to the point where they actually had their strengths listed under doors. So, if you walk in to talk to someone off, I was gonna meet you

00:37:23

Speaker

andrew and I walked in ago. Analogs is not when your strength, I have this huge analytical, know printouts and your graphs and charts and numbers, and all this stuff mean it makes absolutely no sense, yeah well, yeah. I know walking that like wow, maybe that’s not the best meaning have with you’re, not the best yachts set of tools that

00:37:43

Speaker

bring to have this meeting with your ranks.

00:37:46

Speaker

So does definitely, I think, a great point. I agree thing out there and I liked what you talk about notes to do the job description. So I won’t lie. I I I surfed the linkedin jobs daily, just for interest rate and occasionally I’ll check them out and like me, could I do that job and really like you that with things I have now

00:38:07

Speaker

nothing even remotely close to what I do in her health. Her, like one eighty one hundred percent and the way they’re written is like I can apply for this compete for this sure, put me in the interview and I’ll compete with anybody out there, because of the way it’s written in this asleep.

00:38:27

Speaker

How but yeah clarity is definitely key in having that understanding

00:38:34

Speaker

like we said the town isn’t necessarily everything. I agree with you to a certain extent. I think I I go more with mike and georgian that I like town, because there’s a lot things are going green with people who have town and when I talk to talent and only town as in with the task at hand

00:38:54

Speaker

e, oh you’re, good at sales. Are you good at c, plus, plus computing or programming stuff? Like this,

00:39:01

Speaker

I mean you had those talented things that make you human yo, your personal goal. You have that self discipline. You have that drive and motivation, because, because about the other stuff you can learn, you don’t know. Somebody teach me sales worried about sales force that they’re, probably not, but someone could teach me. I got learn java aguilar see post

00:39:21

Speaker

wasik, learn how to code,

00:39:23

Speaker

but that’s self disciplined at years of being green into me in that tape. That’s something that you can’t necessarily just learn how to say. No, I mean I I will I don’t misrepresent my point. Count is necessary. It’s just not sufficient.

00:39:39

Speaker

I talent alone will not I mean it just doesn’t dad. I got after study after study, we’ve done and others about it. Just doesn’t translate you can’t say because somebody’s talented, they will thrive in his role. They might have talent that will translate to help them be successful. I mean I’ve seen how many

00:39:59

Speaker

people, who are precarious outgoing great personality. They can influence a lot of other people, people love them. They can have good conversations again. Great oral skills put him into a sales wall, and it’s like, oh, my god, they’re going to be an actual. Everybody loves this person, but if they’re not organized day can’t says

00:40:19

Speaker

hi, if they can put together a clear stories with data supporting you know why buy something from them would would make sense if they’re terrible at math says an example in math is required in particular sales role. They’re not going to be as successful as they could be, is really the points or talent necessary. Just

00:40:40

Speaker

at all no net very valid arguments. I will definitely give you that for sure, sir,

00:40:47

Speaker

while there has been a great conversation, much like you said at the beginning- and it’s sad that we’re just gonna have to wind this down, but I do want to respect your time in the end as well the listeners time right, so we shot quality over quantity, but answer before we wrap up, we got a couple of questions for you,

00:41:03

Speaker

one being a question all obvious here at the peak performance leadership, podcast canoe edge and your freeman. What makes a great leader

00:41:13

Speaker

I think, it’s a few days, empathy, compassion,

00:41:19

Speaker

hard drive, a relentless pursuit of excellence, a bias for action. Those are things I would put towards the top of my list. Oh and somebody that can really create clarity, mobilize others towards a common goal, common mission, a common vision, goes all set,

00:41:39

Speaker

or somebody to be a great leader

00:41:43

Speaker

that relentless pursuit of excellence to spoke, no shot me right in the heart in a good way there, because I live by, I lived by the japanese term cousin. I don’t if you’re you’re, familiar with your odyssey, which means continuous improvement raden. Actually I even

00:42:03

Speaker

developed for the listen out there check out moving for leadership, dot com for soft power, which is a whole goal, setting program inspired by one myself, discipline and twos yeah, relentless pursuit of curious improvement to develop a goal setting program for you out there saying check that out at moving for leisure

00:42:23

Speaker

dot com for such power, but anyway, we’re here to finish up with you in that last question: is how can people find you? How can they follow you? It’s all the you shameless plugs. Where can I find a book,

00:42:34

Speaker

so I gained alarm also shoot genitals, instagram twitter, early data base. Where is all the same? It’s a riemann drive a written drive if they want to send me an email, they can do that at my work, which is a treatment at shape. The work all one word share the work, dotcom

00:42:53

Speaker

and I’ll be responsive in any way. Radio listeners want to reach out by shea wanna connect any disposable camera. Otherwise, their website with a book is derived, got shipped the word dot com and why I would want people to go. There is no gain access to over twenty accelerators, with your tools, templates

00:43:13

Speaker

artifacts examples from thrive immediately animal, but they will be able to put into play to help nba more high performing leader and build a better organization right way. The loss of access to other interviews, blogs articles that I’ve written am you can buy. The book narrative rights at amazon is the easiest way to pick up the book,

00:43:33

Speaker

and I appreciate you helping me promote. It was pretty cool,

00:43:37

Speaker

hey no worries

00:43:39

Speaker

and for the listeners are always it’s easy for you go to moving for lucia dot com forward, slash one seven three and all those links are in the shots. Sir, it’s been fantastic, it thoroughly enjoyed the book, but you won’t really enjoyed this. Conversation has been well worth. The wait because of crippling for a while now by heavier site,

00:43:59

Speaker

building started. Losing weight was saying saying, goes in this dialogue did not disappoint. You are on your shirt, bra local dialogue, love. What to do like I had where I started. I dig which do I respected it aligns with what I care about is just it’s been a great pleasure.

00:44:15

Speaker

Thank you very much and and and likewise absolute. Likewise, I I don’t you know people can look at. I could look as his competitors. I don’t think I don’t look at it like that at all. Actually, look at it as a

00:44:27

Speaker

supporters began. We support each other cause. Not all of us can do and be everything to everyone, so we can push each other up. Then not that’s actually better offer everyone in the long run. So thank you very much appreciate it.

00:44:42

Speaker

Thank you

00:44:43

Speaker

adopting answer.