The Leadership Killer | US Navy SEAL John Havlik | Episode 108

Scott McCarthy [00:00:00]:
Poplar culture loves a bad boss. We pin our workplace hero, Dilbert, to our cubicle walls, share memes of Michael Scott from The Office, and cheer while watching the $209,600,000 box office smash, Terrible Bosses. We’ve even elected reality TV star Executive Chef and his bad boss, catchphrase, you’re fired into the White House. But do we love these bosses in real life? Well, not really much and definitely not here at Moving Forward Leadership. Bad boss behavior stems from all too common leadership tendencies we carry within us, hubris, arrogance, and proclivity to abuse power. Let them go unchecked for too long, and your reign as a leader is toast. In a world where leadership seems to be about who’s the loudest and who’s the most outlandish, we’re all one step away from being that leader gone wild. Today, my guest, captain John Coach Havlik, former US Navy SEAL, and I discuss topics such as why he joined in US Navy in particular to SEALs, his leader greatest leadership lessons from his time as a SEAL, why humility is so important to leaders, amongst many more other topics.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:13]:
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Moving Forward Leadership podcast, episode 108, the leadership killer with US Navy seal retired John

John Havlik [00:01:29]:
Haviland.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:38]:
Welcome 1. Welcome all to the Moving Forward Leadership podcast. It’s your chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy. And so great to have you here to help you develop your skills into one one of 3 if not all 3 domains of leadership and that is leading yourself leading your team and leading your organization and today we got a great show because we’re going to be talking all about leading yourself and a bit about leading your team as well with a superstar guest retired Navy US Navy Seal, John Havlick, who went up to the ranks of captain. Now if you’re not familiar with military ranks, captain is one rank below into what we call flag ranks or in the Navy terms becoming an admiral. So John went really far in his career as being a SEAL. And what you’re gonna hear about it from him is that it wasn’t all roses and flowers and great times. No.

Scott McCarthy [00:02:34]:
He had some serious difficulties in his career, and it’s some great lessons that are gonna be taken out of it. So this is the type of guess that we get here moving forward leadership to help you develop your skills, In case you haven’t realized it, if this is your 108th time listening or this is your first time listening, this is what we bring to you week in, week out at Moving Forward Leadership. So guys, I’ve already pretty much introduced my guest. I don’t think he needs much more introduction. Former US Navy Seal, captain retired from the Navy, John Havlick, and we’re gonna be talking about his book, The Leadership Killer, which is essentially revolving around how your ego and your arrogance is going to kill you as a leader. Alright. So sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation, all about the leadership killer with my guests, Captain Retired, John Havlick. John, welcome to the Moving Forward Leadership podcast.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:47]:
It’s so great to have you here.

John Havlik [00:03:49]:
Scott, thanks for the, interview. Look forward to, dazzling you with my brilliance and a little bit about the book and my background and share it with your listeners.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:59]:
Wow. That goes a little bit against the whole premise of the book and me being a humble leader, don’t you think?

John Havlik [00:04:06]:
Well, I mean, at least in the military, I learned to be brief and brilliant. Heard that mantra with me, throughout and it worked pretty good. So I will try to dazzle you with, make it worthwhile for the lesson. How’s that?

Scott McCarthy [00:04:20]:
That sounds great. That sounds great. Just just joke it around. I love having former slash, you know, military regardless guests here because we get I get to talk a little bit of the same lingo as what I live on a daily basis. And I’m I’m sorry to tell you, but you’re not the 1st Navy SEAL on the moving forward leadership podcast. You’re number 2, Mark Devaughn beat you out. I’ve had Mark on the show before. Another great guy.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:45]:
You know, Mark?

John Havlik [00:04:46]:
He worked very well.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:48]:
Who’s actually as a little challenge to do, Mark still owns the top downloaded podcast episode from Moving Forward Leadership. So let’s see if you can knock him down. A little inner seal rivalry going on.

John Havlik [00:05:00]:
He’s he’s a better looking guy than I am.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:04]:
So before we dive into your book, I wanna talk a little bit about, you know, your military life because it would be, you know, wrong for me as the host here to not get a little bit of that insights from your life that life that you had for the listener. So the first thing is, you know, why why join the US Navy and in particular, why go to the seals as an officer to lead special forces members?

John Havlik [00:05:32]:
Well, the quick answer is I I grew up an army brat and, followed my dad around. And, when I I never thought I’d make the military a career, but it just so happened that I got the opportunity to coach at the United States Naval Academy when I first got out of college because I thought that was my career choice to be a swim coach. And so the opportunity opened up and but it came with a catch, and the catch was I had, had to join the navy. I had to enlist, go to boot camp, go through the 9 weeks there, and then I had guaranteed orders, from boot camp to the academy. And so, you know, it’s a great opportunity for me, and I’m from that area, so I was excited to go back. And so about about a year into the coaching, assignment, some guy came good looking, handsome guy comes walking down the pool deck, and I, you know, I looked at the head coach, and I said, who is this guy? And he says, oh, this is lieutenant so and so. He just checked on board. And I said, what was he doing? So he’s a navy seal.

John Havlik [00:06:43]:
And I said, what’s a navy seal? And, you know, my coach is the head coach because it’s like the special forces in the Navy. I said, interesting. So, you know, one thing led to another. He my friend and I, he became a great friend, and we worked out together. He kinda told me a little bit about what’s going on, and so I relooked I was starting to relook the coaching whether that was really gonna put a lot of food on the table, so to speak. And and so I said, well, why not? Let’s go for it. And so I I tried out, I put in a package when I was at the academy to go to officer candidate school to get my commission first and then with a guarantee to go to steel training afterwards. So, the folks at the academy were great, in support, and they, they sponsored me and helped me get in there, and so I got in.

John Havlik [00:07:39]:
And, really, why I wanted to be an officer was, I figured if I was gonna do the seal thing, I wanted to have a say in the end state, so to speak. So I wanted to be in charge also, and I’m figuring, well, I’m coaching these future officers. I’m just as good as these guys, so why not go for it? So that’s why I did the, the commissioning route, and it all worked out. And that’s how it led led me into the SEALs a couple of months after I got my commission. I started SEAL training.

Scott McCarthy [00:08:09]:
That’s pretty funny. You know? There’s so many people whose stories are very similar. Like, didn’t plan on going to this way, but it kinda and just, you know, randomly ended up this way and went with the flow. So and I’m kinda similar in that regard as well.

John Havlik [00:08:24]:
Very, very unique opportunity opened up and, you know, the seals at the Naval Academy are are like gods there. So, you know, when I told everybody I was gonna do it, most of them said, well, you’re not gonna make it because nutrition rate is so high. And, that kinda fed me to prove them all wrong, but I was glad I did a great opportunity. I took advantage of it, and I’m glad I did it.

Scott McCarthy [00:08:51]:
Now you were in the SEALs. You did 31 years, 4 months as we discussed before we hit record in the Navy, total time. You retired at the rank of captain from what I read in your bio, which is very senior rank, one one below hitting the flag officers of admiral. So with all that experience, know, what are some of the greatest leadership lessons you took from those times?

John Havlik [00:09:17]:
The best leaders that I worked for were actually kinda unlike the typical maybe special operations stereotype you see on TV or in the movies, loud, obnoxious in your face. Those were the those were the guys that kinda turned me off because it’s my nature is I’m pretty quiet, pretty stoic, most people would say. And and so I really was attracted to the guys who were the quiet professionals and lived the the life, that everybody preached at the time there to, you know, just do your job. And that’s really kinda what the c what attracted me to seals was the opportunity to do some cool stuff, but do it so that nobody would know you’re even there or around. So, the best the best things I got from the guys I I work for was, you know, be able to make a decision because, the guys want it. You a leader, that can make a decision. They don’t want somebody who waffles. Listen to my guys.

John Havlik [00:10:24]:
That was something that was preached. Day 1 of SEAL training was the instructors were really preaching to the officers in the class to trust your men, bring them into the planning process, and and they have a lot of experience. You were foolish if you thought you knew it all and didn’t seek their advice or their, you know, their guidance as you went along. And then, the best is just treat treat people like you would wanna treat themselves, like somebody would wanna treat you. And and I think that was really good for me. I yeah, I learned a lot of that from coaching, and I tried to apply those same principles when I was a leader in the seals.

Scott McCarthy [00:11:06]:
Yeah. Those are definitely some cornerstone principles. Right? And you hear them coming up over and over again. That’s why they they’re just cornerstones. There’s epically crucial, to be a a great leader. Now the military has a lot of gives us a lot of different experience like you and I know. A lot of different lessons that we learn along our ways. Right? And I do have a number of military listeners up here who actually look listening to this podcast.

Scott McCarthy [00:11:35]:
So what is your best advice for them as as they get, you know, closer to the end of their careers? How do what’s the best advice you got for those people in taking all these lessons that you’ve learned from your military service and bringing that into the real world?

John Havlik [00:11:49]:
Well, you know, it’s just one of those you know, I don’t know what they do in the Canadian military, but in our transition programs, they kinda tell you to about 2 years out, start thinking about what you wanna do. And I I didn’t follow that. So I was about 6 months out when I started realizing that, when I finally got my orders, my retirement orders, and I’m like, this is for real. So, you had to start thinking about that. But, you know, start looking for, definitely looking for areas that interest you and that you can apply your you know, what you learned in the military. And so I my goal when I got out was to go and do things unique and challenging, in my retired life. And so I kinda chose this public speaking route and then writing the book and so it was all things I never thought I would do. And and so if you’re up for that, which is hard as you well know in this kind of line of work, there’s thou thousands of experts out there doing the same thing.

John Havlik [00:12:59]:
And so you gotta gotta find your niche. You gotta find your message. And then if you believe in it, you just gotta keep working hard and doing it, and that’s that’s what I’ve been doing. But what I find in when I talk and and meet with corporate and business leaders, it’s it’s everything business or leadership is all the same. It’s just different terminology or how you apply it. You know? And a lot of what you do in the military translate easily goes over to what you can do in the business world. And they they like your discipline, and and so when you know, I tell my sales stories because it’s kind of an unconventional way of leadership. But when you really break it all down, it’s the same thing.

John Havlik [00:13:42]:
You know? And so that’s that’s kinda what I do. But I guess the best thing, like I said, is 2 years out, start looking for it, find something you really like, and then and just go for it. And don’t let don’t let everybody tell you no.

Scott McCarthy [00:13:56]:
That’s a great segue, you know, finding your niche and, and going after it because yours has definitely been in this this realm of, humility is is a leadership cornerstone. You have the book, The Leadership Killer, which is all about what I call here, move forward leadership, the boss. So I have the boss, and we and I’m and the goal is to turn bosses into leaders. And you’ve you’ve you’ve basically framed it around the leadership killer. And the whole premise of the book is humility is is crucially important as a leader. So where did this humility aspect come from? Why why is it so important to leaders? Where where did it come from for you?

John Havlik [00:14:36]:
Humility?

Scott McCarthy [00:14:37]:
Yeah.

John Havlik [00:14:38]:
Well, you know, like like I say in the book, it it was a hard lesson learned and and my own part, my own hubristic story. I, I unfortunately had everything was I was doing well, and I was unfortunately passed over twice for promotion. And, so I had to, get out of the navy, not much to my chagrin. And and so, and I fought real hard to get back in. Some things that had happened administratively, long story, but, somebody had messed with my official record that I did not know about and I did not discover until after I got out. So I was able to use that and some other things to get back on active duty and because that’s what I really wanna do. I had done 13 years, and they’re kicking me out. And I said I got so much more to offer.

John Havlik [00:15:36]:
You know? And so I fought really hard to get back in because I I had some unfinished business. And so once I fig once I corrected my record and got promoted, I took the opportunity to go back and try to get back on active duty, and so that’s what I did. And so my own story is it’s, you know, the book my chapter is about my own story, how I was at my peak, super cocky, thought I knew it all, super hubristic, and then I got I got bit hard and, humbled hard. And so the time out, about 2 years I was out of the service, I stayed in the reserves. That kinda fed my passion to get back in. I missed I missed the guys. I missed hanging out with the guys most more than anything. You know? And and so just that passion to get back in and, it humbled me, and and made me a better leader and made me a better person, because I was get I I was getting a little cocky there and probably as my mom would say, a little bit too big for my britches.

John Havlik [00:16:49]:
And and I learned the hard way. So that’s basically what the book was all about, my story. And then Bill and I, my coauthor, Bill Treasurer, we I do a lot of talking and supportive seminars for Giant Leap Consulting. And, we talked we would talk almost weekly on you see an article or, you know, something on the news about some leader who did something unprofessional or bad, and and you knew it was wrong. And, so we would talk about it, and Bill has a lot of experience in the corporate side of the house and and with the military, he just say, hey. I wanna write a 5th book. What do you think about co authoring him? I said, great. You know? So that that was kind of the the genesis behind the book and why we did it and why and we finally rolled it down.

John Havlik [00:17:41]:
We talked about a lot about different different aspects of bad leaders and what we thought were bad leaders and who we’ve worked for and but it all kinda came back to hubris. You know? And as I think and Bill probably would agree that, we think hubris is the root of all the evil. You know? And all the other bad, leadership traits kinda branch off from hubris. And so that’s why we focused on that topic and thought it was a relevant relevant subject for right now. So that’s that’s that’s the story behind the story.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:18]:
In the book, you guys have 2 characters in there, which I found kinda interesting. You refer to them as the killer and general hubris. So let’s let’s dive into the these 2 cats a little bit deeper, shall we? So who is the killer? What are what what what are they about? And and as well as the general?

John Havlik [00:18:37]:
Well, I I think, you know, it’s it humor is it’s a fine line to me. You know, the killer is is the one where the leader just just thinks they know it all, and and, they think they cannot follow their own guidance and, you know, do what I say, not what I do. They think they can do things because people won’t report them and you know, so it all be it becomes more about them and not about the unit, the commander, the mission. You know? And so they lose focus on, you know, why they’re in charge and what they’re doing. And and like I said, it all becomes about them, and and they do things for the better for the betterment of themselves and not for the the folks that work for them. So that’s kind of the bad hubris. The general one is, that’s a good one. I I haven’t thought about that in a long time.

John Havlik [00:19:39]:
So it’s a good question, Scott. I, general hubris. I I think there’s a fine line between being confident because as a leader, you wanna be confident. You wanna be and the men, at least the folks that I work with in special ops, they want a confident leader. They want somebody make a decision, have their best interest, know that they’re you’re gonna be upfront leading them, and they have confidence in you. You you in return have confidence in them. And I think maybe that’s more kind of the general hubris side of the house is you have to have a little bit of hubris to be a successful leader, but you have to know when it’s getting out of hand.

Scott McCarthy [00:20:24]:
Yeah. I definitely took them as the the killer is definitely that that narcissistic asshole boss that doesn’t care about anything but but themselves. But the general hubris is more along the lines of, yeah, you’re a good person, but, ultimately, you’re getting successful. You’re starting to knock all down all these goals and stuff for this, getting recognized, getting noticed, and your ego just swells and swells and swells, and then you don’t realize it. The journal didn’t realize it until the point of and, you know, failure. And and you and you guys talk about that in your book of so many examples that you put in a real life examples of CEOs and athletes and all these other people hit their pinnacle, and it all comes crashing down in front of them because they they didn’t keep their ego in check. So I guess my my follow on question with that, just to keep running with this theme is, how can leaders ensure their ego don’t grow doesn’t grow too much when when they’re being successful, when they’re when they’re when they’re being recognized as this great leader and and doing all these good things for organization, hitting that pinnacle, you know, what can they do to make sure they don’t hit that stumbling point and all of a sudden they see themselves just crashing to the ground?

John Havlik [00:21:39]:
I thought it was really important we did it in the Navy and I saw it in the other services was when I became a commanding officer, I had an XO, my number 2, and then I had my command master chief or senior listed. And, you know, we called it the triad of leadership, and and I always relied heavily on them to kinda call me out when if I was stepping over the line or doing trying to put a policy decision that didn’t make sense. And and I and I saw that work very well in in the navy, and I always liked that. So Bill and I kinda mentioned, you know, have a check. You know, have somebody that you can trust that you can can call you out when you’re getting out of hand and, give you good advice, you know, to kinda prevent you from from, getting, you know, your head swelling and getting, too big. So, if you can find that check, it’s very important to, as a leader, my feeling to, keep you humble, but it’s still effective.

Scott McCarthy [00:22:55]:
Sometimes you have goals, but you know what? You have a hard time reaching them, and you just can’t figure out why. Why is it that you can’t achieve those things that you want to achieve? Maybe it’s dedication. Maybe it’s motivation. Maybe you haven’t picked the right goals. So this is where I was not too long ago. And then I realized something. I’ve been developing the Power Goals program my entire life, and here it is now for you, where you can learn how to pick the right goals, figure out how to achieve those goals, How to stay on track, but most importantly, how to get back on track when you get off. So are you ready? Are you ready to up your game and achieve those things that you’ve been meaning to achieve for so long now? Simply go to moving for leadership.comforward/power and learn more about the Power Goals program and achieve everything that you’ve been wanting to achieve.

Scott McCarthy [00:23:56]:
And now back to the show. Yeah. I definitely like that. I I’ve employed that personally myself in the past when I was a company commander, so I was in command of 200 folks. My 2 IC, my second in command, same thing as XO, And my squad are center major, same thing as, you know, same type of position as what you guys have. Those 2 guys can walk in my office anytime, shut the door, and say, w two f, boss. What are you thinking? Right? Yeah. And it happens.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:27]:
It it it happens. Even myself, like, I was podcasting back in those days. I was still learning all this stuff from all these great guests. And it still happened of people walking in, shutting the door, and saying, what the hell are you doing? What are you thinking? And sometimes you get the blinders on. You don’t know what you don’t know. You you didn’t check your blind spot. You know, pick pick an analogy. But you need these folks.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:49]:
Right? These these guys and girls to be able to walk in, knowingly that you got their back for them basically jacking you up.

John Havlik [00:24:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was very you know, it was it was real important, that you had that. You know? But after you but it was also very important that once you open the door, you came out as a unified voice. And so that was very important in front of the sailors or the troops that the top 3 were talking the same message. You know? And so while they’re checking you, you know, you are driving command policy, making sure everything’s working towards the goal, the mission. And you gotta you gotta be talking on the same sheet of music because you don’t wanna confuse the sailors or the troops. And so have the check, talk it out, come out in one unified voice.

John Havlik [00:25:42]:
I think that works really well.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:44]:
Absolutely. This is, one of those times that has to be done behind closed doors, right, away from everybody else because those people who are, you know, your your your check or whatever, where regardless where they sit in organization, maybe, you know, maybe they’re not your right hand men, for example. Sometimes it could be someone from from the ground that you just happen to trust. Right? That will you will be able to enable them to come in and do that to you. But it it’s gotta be behind closed doors. It can’t be public so that, like you said, it’s a unified voice that comes out at the end.

John Havlik [00:26:17]:
Yeah. It was, you know, it’s important for us. One of the hard things we had, you know, being unconventional, so to speak, is somebody on conventional side of the house that you could talk to that could help you understand that because we realize so much on the conventional side of the house for our logistics and movement and stuff like that. But, you know, one of the biggest leadership I things I always had was one of the most intimidating things was, walking into a platoon space full of seals and they’ll humble you very quickly. And so, hopefully, they do it behind closed doors and not public. But, when you’re a young junior officer, I’m sure you found the same thing. You walk into a room of experienced folks. You’re crazy, if you think you know it all.

John Havlik [00:27:05]:
And, you know, and there’s many times they would call me out. So it was good stuff. But, I think the like I said, the bottom line long as you go, have a check. Somebody you trust that can call you out when you’re getting out of hand.

Scott McCarthy [00:27:23]:
Awesome. One of the other concepts you have in the book is that leadership starts from the bottom. And that’s something that you wouldn’t necessarily hear from many people. So definitely wanna get your your thoughts on this, your rationale behind that. You know? Most people think leadership, and they think the top of organization. But you’re here you you and, you guys are talking about it starting from the bottom. So can you can you explain that to us?

John Havlik [00:27:50]:
Well, a little bit I mean, Bill Bill likes to think, you know, as a leader, your job is to develop future leaders. So you have to try to identify those folks as soon as possible, and that’s and they’re down at the bottom. You know? And so you you’re always looking for a new talent to come up and probably ultimately replace you. But I always felt that, you know, when I was one of my first big leadership positions, I was overseas at a special boat unit in Panama, and I kept hearing, I don’t know how they do it in the Canadian military, but Fridays was a field day. And so we would go around and clean the spaces or the command would clean the spaces, and then the XO would walk around and check for cleanliness and stuff. And I would every now and then when I first got down there, all I kept hearing was leadership doesn’t know what’s going on around the command. And I and I used to say that when I was a young j o, and then all of a sudden, I was in a leadership, and I’m going, and they’re talking about me now. So, you know, what am I missing? What what what am I not getting? And so I made it a point.

John Havlik [00:28:58]:
The best thing I ever did as a leader was was to do these walkabouts every Friday when I was in town. And, and I would go down and, yes, under the, you know, the the umbrella, I was gonna check the, command cleanliness. But in reality, what I did was just I went down to meet my people, my sailors, folks doing the work, and I’d call walk the deck plates. And, and I took it as an opportunity to just talk to them, meet them, learn from them, see what they were thinking. And it was very, awkward and a little uncomfortable at first, but, I made it a point and made a commitment that I was gonna do it all the time when I was in not on travel or leave. And and so after a period of time, the the sailors knew that on Friday, you know, here comes the XO, and this was their opportunity to directly talk to leadership. And so what I what I learned from it is I got my best ideas and best gouge, so to speak, was from the sailors when I walked the dead plates and did my walkabouts. And so, we tried to I tried to get as much as I could, you know, and learned an awful lot, reinforced some things that I had already known.

John Havlik [00:30:18]:
But it was a great opportunity for me to share. This is what the commanding officer wants to do. This is why we’re doing it, get feedback from them, and then hear anything they had that maybe I wasn’t getting up the chain, so to speak, that gets the stuff gets filtered as you well know through as it goes up the chain of commands. You always don’t get the unabridged story. So it was a great opportunity. So that’s where I I think leadership starts at the very beginning because I great I got great information and great, knowledge from my sailors, the most junior ones, because they’re they don’t know any better. They’ll tell you straight up what’s wrong and, you know, and, you you know, sometimes I had to check myself, but but it was good. It was all good.

John Havlik [00:31:06]:
And, so that’s kind of what we meant by starting at the bottom.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:12]:
I often say you can’t lead from behind the desk. Right? You you need to get out. You need to walk around. Walk the lines. We like to refer to it as up here, but it’s the exact same, you know, same thing. Right? Get out, see see your people at the ground level, walk around, talk to them, talk to them as a person, 1 on 1 person. And as you slowly build that trust with them, they they understand. They see you as a actual individual.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:38]:
They’ll start bringing your problems to you, and they’ll start informing you of things, what’s going right, what’s not going right. One time I got informed of a a a training program and grow sorry, of training program that got shut down that never even reached me. I’m like, well, I’m the one that approves that or just doesn’t approve those things. So I never even heard of this. And from from the ground level was, well, apparently, it got it got, it didn’t get approved. So went back and looked into it. And lo and behold, oh, we were doing that training 5 weeks later. So it’s so crucial.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:14]:
You can’t lead from that from the desk. And it blows my mind, the show, as much as I actually like it. I hate it at the same time as that undercover boss where CEOs from big corporations go undercover as employees in their own company and basically start doing jobs and stuff. Like, why does it take a TV show for you to get out and walk around and and see your people? It it it shouldn’t.

John Havlik [00:32:38]:
Yeah. You you

Scott McCarthy [00:32:38]:
gotta do that.

John Havlik [00:32:40]:
Well, you gotta do it. It’s it’s a huge commitment because walkabouts could take 2 to 3 hours. You know? And so I like most exos, you know, a lot of people waiting to talk to me. I got my inbox is stacked 6 feet high with, you know, all the all the administrative work for the command and but, you know, you gotta do it. You gotta push away, and that’s the only way you learn. It’s you know, I mean, I think you’re foolish. That’s that’s kind of one sign of hubris is you you think you know it all from your higher echelon, your your office, and then you’re really kinda fooling yourself that you don’t really have the big picture. So

Scott McCarthy [00:33:23]:
No. Absolutely. So the one of the final things I like to talk about is you guys talk about a chapter. You’ll be able to talk about a chapter of living leadership. So how can leaders go about how what are some of the best ways that leaders can live leadership on a daily basis?

John Havlik [00:33:42]:
Well, you have to remember, one thing I learned very quickly is leadership is lonely. You know? And so you have to remember that you’re you’re on a pedestal, and when you’re in front of the the sailors or the troops, your spotlight is on you. And, so every act that you do, everything you say, they’re listening to, they’re watching. And so you always gotta remind yourself that you are always on, you know, in that spotlight and, you know, to act professionally. I always thought the best leaders were the ones that, you know, set policy, lived by that policy, and didn’t differentiate at all. You know? And and, I respected those guys the most and and and ladies that I worked for. You you have to be you just have to live you gotta have to live professionally. You have to you have to set the standard for the command, the business, the organization.

John Havlik [00:34:47]:
And so that’s my definition. Bill will probably talk give you a little bit more, but I just think you’re the person everybody look looks to and list and listens, to, and you set the standards. And, you have to live by those standards. You can’t differentiate when it’s convenient for you and expect everybody else to follow something different, especially when you’re in charge and you are setting policy and guidance out for everyone to follow.

Scott McCarthy [00:35:19]:
The the adherence to the standards, I definitely think is crucial. You can’t be wishy washy. Right? You can’t show up one day and be like, oh, we’re gonna do this today, and we’re gonna do it every day. And then the next day, you show up like, I don’t really feel like it today. You know what? We’re just I’m just gonna I’m gonna take a break, but the rest of you guys, you still have to follow it. You you gotta live like you said, you gotta live to that standard. You said that that you that you expect from your from your subordinates. And, especially, in fact, I would say you have to even live to a higher standard than what you expect from them because, like you said, you’re a leader.

Scott McCarthy [00:35:51]:
The spotlight is always on you. And whatever mistake you make, it gets magnified by a bazillion times.

John Havlik [00:36:00]:
Yep. Yeah. You’re you’re always in the spotlight. That’s about the best. You know? It’s yeah. I I don’t I can’t say any any clearer, I guess, to me. You’re you’re when you’re in charge, you’re in charge of everything and everybody is watching you and listening to you. And so you gotta live you gotta live according to what, your policies and and your guidance you put out on every for everybody else.

John Havlik [00:36:25]:
So yep.

Scott McCarthy [00:36:27]:
Awesome. John, I thoroughly enjoyed the show. We’re gonna start to wind down here. But before we wrap up, I do got a last couple questions for you.

John Havlik [00:36:35]:
Okay.

Scott McCarthy [00:36:36]:
And the first one is when I ask all my guests here at Moving Forward Leadership, and that is according to you, John Havlick, what makes a great leader?

John Havlik [00:36:46]:
I have to say the best leaders are the ones that can make a decision, the ones that are consistent in their leadership style whether, you know, if you come in hard, then stay hard. You’re gonna be soft, stay soft. You know? And try to waffle, you know, be hard one day, like you said, and soft. So, you know, make a decision, be consistent. And one thing we learn as sales, it’s always about the mission. It’s not about the individual. So if you can follow that and pass that on to your sailors and troops, works out pretty well. And stay home.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:27]:
Awesome. Final thing is, where can people find you? How can they follow you? Where can they get the book? Feel free to give yourself a shameless plug. It’s all about you right now.

John Havlik [00:37:37]:
Well, I got a website, wwwcoach havalick.com. I have LinkedIn, John Havlik, Twitter at coach havalick. The book is on, leadership killer dot com. You can go to that website and order it. We just released it on audible, so it’s available there. I do a lot of work, like I said, for my coauthor, Bill Treasurer at Giant Leap Consulting. So you can go to giantleadconsulting.com there. And yeah.

John Havlik [00:38:11]:
And, you know, but the website is probably the best way to get a hold of me. There’s a whole page where you can with my contact information. And, if you like my sea stories, you wanna hear more, always always willing to share. So, appreciate the appreciate the opportunity to get that out there.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:29]:
Awesome. For the audience, as always, it’s easy. Go to moving forward leadership.comforward/108, 108, and all the all the links are in the show notes for you guys. John, it’s been a pleasure. Before we wrap up here, I’m gonna give yours your book a plug because, you know what, I’ve gone through a copy, and it’s great. It’s it’s super it’s not, you know, super thick. It’s only about a 150 pages or no. Not even a 120 pages.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:53]:
But I love these books, the the ones that are, like, a 100 pages, a 120 pages because there’s no fluff in there for the for the listener. There’s no fluff. It’s all, solid advice, actionable tips in there that you can take, you can implement right now. A lot of people think these big books, these 250, 300, 400 page books, novels on leadership are the ones to go because the people believe that they have the most knowledge in them. I totally disagree. The smaller ones are actually the best ones because they’re focused, they’re sharp to give you the advice that you need, and that’s exactly what you’re gonna get out of the leadership killer. So there’s a plug for you directly for me. And no, I was not paid to do that.

John Havlik [00:39:36]:
Thank you. That kinda Bill Bill and Art, my intent with the book was to be brief and brilliant, so to speak, but offer a tool that, you know, a leader can just have right there as a ready reference in case and make it quick. Yeah. So thank you very much for the plug. I appreciate it.

Scott McCarthy [00:39:58]:
I would say your intent, one shot down range, bull’s eye done.

John Havlik [00:40:03]:
Thank you.

Scott McCarthy [00:40:04]:
John, again, thanks for coming out. Thanks for talking to me. Most importantly, thanks for talking to listener there.

John Havlik [00:40:10]:
Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Thank you.

Scott McCarthy [00:40:24]:
Alright. That’s all I got for you fine folks today. I hope you enjoyed the show. I hope you enjoyed the interview and most importantly, I hope you got something out of it. And if you did, remember, r squared, s squared, right? Write and review the show so that it gets a little bit noticed a bit more, but most importantly, I can help more people because that’s what I’m here for, that’s what my guests are here for is to help more people become better leaders and not being bosses, right? So remember that, r squared, rate in view. S, share the show. Share this show with someone who you think can relate to the podcast as a whole and today’s topic. And then finally, subscribe.

Scott McCarthy [00:41:06]:
Subscribe so that you never miss another episode and you can do that via your podcast playing app of choice through movingforwardleadership.comforward/subscribe. That’s it for today, ladies and gentlemen. And as always, stop bossing and start leading. Take care now.