As bleary-eyed workers return to “normal life” back at the office, many are questioning what their new work life will look like. Leaders now face a dilemma: How do we keep our people—and attract new talent? The answer, according to two acclaimed human resources and performance experts, is deceptively simple. Have more fun. Work” and “fun” have historically been considered polar opposites of each other. But a quick look under the hood of Fortune’s 100 Best Companies to Work for in America list reveals an undeniable fact: 81% of surveyed employees say the best companies are all fun places to work. Deloitte has gone so far as to label the 2020s as “The Era of Workplace Fun.”

Meet Bob and Mario

BOB NELSON, PH.D., president of Nelson Motivation Inc., is the world’s leading authority on employee recognition and engagement. He’s worked with 80% of Fortune 500 companies, is a Senior Fellow for the Conference Board, a top thought leader for the Best Practice Institute, and was named a top-five management guru by Global Gurus. Fondly known as “Dr. Bob,” he has authored over 30 books on employee motivation and engagement, which have collectively sold over 5 million copies and been translated into more than 30 languages. 

MARIO TAMAYO is a principal with Tamayo Group Inc., a no-nonsense consulting firm specializing in leadership and organizational performance. He has more than 30 years of experience in maximizing human performance, working with organizations such as Genentech, Amylin Pharmaceuticals, Petco, General Dynamics, and the U.S. Men’s Olympic Volleyball team. 

Timestamped Overview

During this interview Bob, Mario, and I discuss the following topics:

  • How work become boring in the first place
  • The benefits of bringing more fun into the workplace
  • How to incorporate fun into the culture of your company
  • How the daily work can be more fun for your company
  • How to celebrate success in a fun manner
  • The difference between reinforcing performance and presence
  • How to make your own work more fun

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The following is an AI generated transcript which should be used for reference purposes only. It has not been verified or edited to reflect what was actually said in the podcast episode. 


Gentlemen, welcome to the show it’s great to have both of you here tonight.00:00:07

SpeakerThank you for having us things stuff, so I got a I like just throw questions out and see who takes the lead on the question. I asked not really going to affect marriages point towards bob and bob’s. Point back towards barrier is of interest.00:00:24

SpeakerSo first question: how do you guys, though, we’re here talking yoga about your book, the making work? Fine?00:00:32

SpeakerHow did we get away from having fun anyway? Why did work become so strict and boring, and we’ve lost a fun aspect in the first place, so of atmosphere less sure it was ever part of the arrangement it is to be in a year you pay to work00:00:52

Speakerwork and do what you’re told him he want to have fun00:00:57

Speakerdid on your own time. Has the weekends for an incidence probably been more the history of work and fun? It was very separate an increasingly as we have merged those different parts of ourselves and we spend we spend the bulk of our waking hours with work. It only stands to reason that00:01:17

Speakerit would be great if we could make that more fun more enjoyable, and if we do that well, it will be an attraction for talent. People would enjoy group00:01:29

Speakerdoing their jobs and help in working with others and serving the customer, and that’s our as our premise and that’s what we that’s. What we’re sticking to00:01:41

Speakeryou can’t make us do anything different00:01:43

Speakermexico. We have it in our research for this book. We’ve we’ve got over four hundred real life examples of of a what this looks like a different different parts, different shapes and forms from the individual and the work they do their job to the team and how we can bring more fun to the the team. Then how you can00:02:04

Speakersustained as an organization00:02:07

Speakera us. That’s that’s awesome, actually yeah. I know it makes absolute sense right and you think about ah how we collectively I’ve evolved, the workplaces evolved over time. It’s also always been that way. It’s been super strict, like you know you shop, you do your job and go home in in kind of keep that separation between00:02:26

Speakerhome and work. But now we see much of an overlap, a bob in your talk, fair, you mention about the benefits of bringing ah hill fun into the workplace. Why don’t we dive into their first and say? Okay, what are some of the benefits that your research has shown that comes out of00:02:46

Speakermaking the place more fun and lively? We we, I were sparked by a boy, looked at the the research for the the best places to work in america that fortune publishes every year00:02:58

Speakerthat we were intrigued by the fact that eighty two percent of companies on that list. Eighty two percent of employees at companies on the hundred best place to work in america, site that they’re cut music, a fun place to work and for the company said that applied for that honor, but didn’t make it. It was only sixty00:03:18

Speakerreset so that that one variable is actually represents the largest single, a differential of anything that they this they look at inserting company. So it’s a it’s a kind of a hidden or herm are magical thing that that somehow you, if you incorporate this, is part of the00:03:38

Speakerequation for your workers and free work environment. You get a lot more benefits than meets the eye. It’s not just the cost of the balloons. Are the pizza you be paid, your your create an atmosphere near your impact in intangible of of the workplace in for individuals. It’s the soft00:03:59

Speakerside that that has them, ah most devoted to doing their best work and doing it right00:04:06

Speakerand that’s that’s. I think it’s in the reach of any any company any size. Any industry which is different from some companies have a fun day one day of the year. They did a dedicated and devoted to science, but that’s not we’re talking about we’re talking about. How do you make it? It’s a part of the fabric for the oregon00:04:26

Speakerstation so that each manager, each leader in the company, has responsibility of making sure that it happens. There is being held accountable for it.00:04:38

SpeakerOh base guam here from users,00:04:42

Speakeryou urine draining into the dna of the culture door of the company right hand, building out from the ground level and all the way up. So let’s get to some tangibles here in your water, some the best ways and what have some of the best companies out there, how of the ingrained making a fun workplace00:05:01

Speakerthis into their culture vice know, having that one day a year, that’s cortical fun, but the reality is it’s force fun and no one actually wants to do it. Yeah00:05:13

Speakerin the us. Where were say well it, and so the company is it they do a dumb name for some is a they make it. One of the core values to the allies could have an eye on it00:05:24

Speakerthroughout their operations and are looking to to not again, you can’t force fun on people in asean. Okay, we’ve all been a part of things where there was some someone elses idea. Fine, but you know didn’t do much for us. It’s see you gotta, you gotta, do it with your people on and use idea?00:05:44

SpeakerIs it they’re excited about it? And maybe if we are expansive- and we can appreciate my dna appreciate your idea and we can both benefit from it00:05:57

Speakerso lot times a sparse grass roots, you might death meet with the your team and say hey. You know we’re gonna do some more fun around here able to have the ideas, and then people start to share ideas, and then, before you know it, you might even have a committee at starting to put things together on a regular basis00:06:15

Speakerand then ass, as the momentum grows for having more fun the reputation gets out there. It’s broader then, before you know you get some companies that take it so seriously. They take fun so seriously that they have vips of fun00:06:31

Speakeron the executive team and dad were saying start anywhere. You can’t not just top down but start bottom up meet in the middle. Ah, in learn from what you’re gonna try a few things learn from it. Don’t give up make sure we you know we talk about. One principal in our book is make sure that it’s safe and fun for everyone.00:06:52

SpeakerLike you just said sketch, you want to force anybody to do something that they’re not gonna enjoy, and how I’ll ask you this sketch? How do we make sure that we’re gonna provide something of people are gonna value? Is fun00:07:07

Speakera biome into the process of making sure her hey the better owens they’re providing are bringing those ideas forward? If you what to do what is fun yeah, so one of the things that people do with our black as they pass it out, each manager passes out that managers team and says bathers there’s over00:07:25

Speakerfour hundred ideas in here. What are you let’s do this and pick out the ones that you would like to do. The most have, maybe that maybe initial initial, the ones in the margins in path then becomes a more a00:07:38

Speakermotivation guide for year. Your own team, instead of taking give anything that someone else has done elsewhere. You can reinvent know you. Can you can duplicate what they’ve they’ve done? You have to reinvent the wheel. They make it even easier by allowing people by looking at those awful opportunities to say what they they decided. It would be most fun and then00:07:59

Speakerfind a cross cross over that that people would be excited about by the way is la mention. You know these. These things are prominent here.00:08:08

SpeakerWe noticed these work because he’s her real company examples, so another user are just hey. I wonder what would happen if we try this now. These are, in fact things. People are doing, have been doing and will probably continue to death00:08:22

Speakerafter doing now, because it they are working for them. So that’s you know, and that’s ultimately you know it by by getting in the game and trying something. That is a lot I find a lot of ah employs or organizations were supposed to wait for someone else to do it away for the the c o two started or something- and you don’t need00:08:42

Speakerto do that, and it might never happen if you, if you do that, because they’re focused on they’re focused on strategy and what’s going on outside the organization, and so that is probably not gonna, be00:08:56

Speakerthe focus unless illicit could be shown to impact things at work,00:09:02

Speakerimpact the strategy of the company. So, for example, right now, it’s very difficult to hire people with a hiring crunch. At the same time, we’ve got a record number of people quitting their jobs. The great resignation itself, who do I get a handle on that this would be a good, a good place to to start to say. Maybe you00:09:22

Speakerwe had a culture that that the better supported the people would have their talents and what they brought to the party. We would normally get more from them, but did stick with us longer, and so it our money, what you pay people is important, but that’s just a starting point and the00:09:41

Speakerother things that are actually get more results are the intangibles,00:09:45

Speakersuch as as fun or recognition or asking people for their ideas bless them to pursue those00:09:52

Speakerinvolve them in decisions, especially ones that affect them and their job. How you handle a misstatements made, could you can you can criticize person from the staff and and lose ground in the relationship with them? Where you could you could pauses and say? Would you learn from that and tickle a longer00:10:13

Speakertrump of them play?00:10:16

SpeakerThat shows trust and respect.00:10:19

SpeakerI bob you did that for me at what was it almost thirty years ago00:10:24

Speakerfor that long, my work, I worked with barbara I’ve known each other for thirty four years and we started off. He was my boss for several years and I’m not still00:10:35

Speakera hit and out one of the first big cass I had I blow and I made. I am a huge mistake on a printing project and bob where you tell him about that. It wasn’t that big a day00:10:52

Speakerhe had. He was in charge of ah00:10:57

Speakerthe development over the training product that we printed upper a large number of women. It turned out that the spelling check didn’t catch, a word that, instead of manager, which is a word that was used, hundreds and hundreds of times said the document said manger00:11:17

Speakeredit. It was like he was a little nervous about now. If it were, the play will make that mistake again. Well, yeah.00:11:26

SpeakerNever he never did what are had what he said or what bob said was against will just take. This is a ten thousand dollar training,00:11:34

Speakerbut you have to expensive training packages for sure, but he did it in a way that I feel bad. It was book which is the important thing, and, and that’s really what great leaders do is they see every interaction with their direct reports and colleagues and customers? They see every interaction as an opportunity to turn00:11:55

Speakerturn something, and we call on the turning points and, in the end, I’ll ask you scott. Can you think of a time when you you you, you met somebody or you work for somebody that you thought every time you eat you, you left him. You felt gotta that person’s a great person to or another it manager,00:12:14

Speakeryeah anna and that’s what we’re trying to do with leaders is make sure that they take every chance opportunity to turn that so that the employees that they deal with the people they deal us feel their self esteem goes up as a result of interacting with them to hell literally hitler era to build the relationship not just broke00:12:34

Speakeris done on getting the job done. If you build a relationship with could be easier, get the job done in the prison could want to do the the best job for you if it’s just, if you’re solely focused on doing more work and do it faster and ah that’s that’s kind of thin in terms of the have a hiccup. It’s probably00:12:54

Speakergonna be a a problem. Bigger problem, if you had a, they had built a stronger relationship where the person is gonna, be honored themselves to do the best job possible. So it’s a it’s a it’s. A choice between every manager has in terms of what they want their focus to be in it’s only one out of every four or five matches any of us or00:13:14

Speakeravner career that we think are a good manager and it’s usually because they do for the things that were talking about in the day they have the best interest of the employees at heart.00:13:27

SpeakerIt’s sincere that they wouldn’t ask and do something we wouldn’t do themselves, but they are closely looking at where the person’s going and talking to them about their career and things are they’re excited about things are learning about it. If you make that into a part of the job, it’s not a waste of time. It’s a00:13:47

Speakerit’s a systematic development by by every conversation in in showing that the person a bigger picture of of what they could be brats for the organization, if not further themselves, on their own career and life.00:14:04

SpeakerNow you you are so many great points you guys have like spoken about for pass on. Gotta go to our cylinders. Got00:14:12

Speakeris on the book00:14:14

Speakerexactly right.00:14:16

SpeakerWhat would what I’m hearing the theme about is? This enables the development of cross between the leader and their team, because it shows the leader now is able to even show more so that they’re, not just all about the bottom line. Output, etcetera, actually do00:14:35

Speakercare about their people, their wellbeing, how they go about their day to day business with in the company you are, they actually enjoying their work and such which is important to the workers today, which then enables your bills. I trust bond between both the team and reader and then, when times get rough. Twitter now00:14:56

Speakerknows that he can hear she can fly under team because they’ve had their teams back now, their team’s gonna have their back in, if you guys have wrapped us round. While you do this through having more fun, which brings me to my question, we’ve talked about you having a grass roots approach, you mention of a building committee,00:15:16

Speakereven some organizations that have been a vp of fun, which I am wow at- that us, that’s pretty amazing. But how do we go about this in a day to day basis, because really desperate a bond gets built? It’s it’s day in day out?00:15:29

SpeakerYes, yes, and I think well again, with blue timeout, the man’s you can do, but there’s a lot employee can do in terms of making their own work fun or, if they’re part of a team to bring up ideas that might be fun00:15:43

Speakerfor the group. You don’t have to be a passive observer in your own life in your own job could be an active participant and suggest ideas. So there’s you know, there’s also the ways in or resistance can change. We like to think that it always works with the soup from the ceo and it rolls down the organization and we all fall in00:16:04

Speakerbut more times another. I have change happens four times a night. Someone does something that gets a better resolve and, based on that day, they replicated someone else notices and they replicated and you get a year the organic change happening and icky bad, and when do you cross the line announced00:16:24

Speakerpart of how we do things round here is more often how change occurs is nutter, announced change and it just happens, magically it’s more organic and that’s processes of trial and error and learning from the experiences and when something works well. Building on that00:16:44

Speakerit doesn’t work well as to have given up say well. Why would we learned from that hot? What could we have done better? How how could we do better next time, and so that that you embrace it like a federal? So I I tend to think big of a lot of companies that have fun is one of their core values, whether they’re, five or six core values, and that’s that00:17:04

Speakerit’s partly their way of granted if they’re doing something for economic or values of the night, just on the wall by the systematic they’re trying to push on each of those. Ah, that’s one way to help sustain the effort to to say yes, this is part of what we want to be rude. So how can we have more fun actually celebrate success?00:17:24

SpeakerYes, how can we catch people doing things right,00:17:27

Speakerbecause a lot of fun is is basic. Leave me now, making people feel good about what they did, so they might do more that what you recognize gets repeated and- and so that’s, let’s focus on what that looks like in the end for any of us in in our sphere of influence in the workplace.00:17:47

SpeakerSo so, through the corner thread you you mentioned most sobering success, which is something I’ve talked around podcasting summertime, so full, not one specifically yo, so water, the great companies out there who are which are doing great fun things. How did they go about celebrating success?00:18:05

SpeakerWell, there’s have yeah yeah00:18:09

Speakerthere’s a lot in in again. This is the good one of the big divides in companies out. There is there’s a lock on his cell yeah. Always we celebrate success week, we ever end of the year at christmas time we do a holiday party and we give out a few awards. You know it’s like okay, well, you’re you’re doing something, but that really is canada00:18:28

Speakertoo little too late. You know you wanted to capture the moment more in the moment and not wait till then the units almost like ancient history technology. So what can we do along the way when the project is finished? What can we do to to end? And again you can involve the team in that. If we, if we make the school, what would the team like to do to celebrate in mid may00:18:48

Speakeridiots? Maybe present the findings themselves, the management team- maybe it’s having a barbeque with their other family, is not done. Inviting management is now it it’s all over the map, but by it. If it had okay, it could be taking the team out to hosting them to a movie and popcorn afternoon popcorn00:19:09

Speakerluggage after they finish a project which is how does that work? Mario? Well, that’s not have bothered. I did die over at the kent blanchard companies. Weird, ah bob was vp of product development that was directors aaron.00:19:21

SpeakerWhat we did is we waited until. Ah, there was a major movie debut of one of the one of the best movies of all time,00:19:30

Speakerand ah, what we do is we we ask the team. What would you like to do when we make this deadline? They set up. Man would love to go, see00:19:39

Speakerjurassic park on opening day on opening day shall we went. It was all about one o’clock. In the afternoon we had a. We had a quick glance, we saw the movie and we had popcorn and then, of course, gonna put a sign up back at work so to let people know that the the department was shut down for a few hours. We were away on a training for at00:19:59

Speakerpaleontology workshop to the hatch that there was a lot of fun. I was memorable in the team kept saying: let’s, let’s do more of those is, it was. It was fun and I have to take the dumb ass out of you knows by, but I got some pushback for for tat. I00:20:18

Speakerknow about that either.00:20:20

SpeakerI mean I often got pushback on00:20:24

Speakerand and as part of a manager’s job. I always did my my job was to protect. My department from the the organization is a theocracy in though windsor of random randomness and indicates allow them to keep focused on on the job needs to be done so yet the yet to build the fence.00:20:44

SpeakerWhat you did- and I and I did I said well, we we did business with how we want to celebrate and it be if you, if you’re group ah found that welcome, bought, do this. Do that and we don’t know, maybe you should do something get something worthy of celebrating hand and because we had we had. We had the budget, sick abuse, different ways,00:21:04

Speakerand we chose your users in a more thoughtful way than just it’s someone’s birthday the spine. Okay, can you know the heads really not reinforcing performance at all as reinforcing presence? In our view, a birthday, a year’s service award, a holiday party all dad. If, if you do all those things,00:21:24

Speakerthis is an it’s all. You do you’re reinforcing a culture of entitlement.00:21:30

SpeakerWe just do stuff for you, because you’re you’re here and you do not have focus on performance. So if you wanna have a beer focused on peak performance, you ebay, strategic on on the setting up aggressive goals and then celebrating. Likewise, windows are met, so it’s it’s a. We did have fun with it.00:21:50

SpeakerDo a lotta, a lotta, fun things, but we we worked our butts off to his shout. I am in jail deserved. I have to take a pot after a few years, bob last, because he he hit the big time, waster thousand and one ways to reward employees which assault sold like three million copies, know something like that,00:22:08

Speakerbut bob had set. He had set the pattern for me when he laughed and when my when my team ban00:22:18

Speakerachieve something great, what I did is I I took them all out, but I also double. This is a team building00:22:26

Speakerevent and when I did is I I took them to the del mar race track, and this is back in the days when you do things like that, and I had them split up and the partners nascent. I’m gonna give each team twenty bucks, so here’s a thing we could have lunch today. Then you’re gonna go put your bets on the horses and then we’re gonna get together for dinner and you’re gonna to00:22:45

Speakerplain what you did in with it. What the outcome was a which was graham’s a great afternoon and people said well: here’s how we bet, here’s, how we decided and here’s what we came up with an you know bob when I got back to work the next day for a few days after that I got called on the carpet. For that too,00:23:08

Speakeryou forgot the giving of a percent of the earnings exactly well and it was very successful and again when people are having fun at work, they’re achieving things, as bob said, the more likely to just keep doing work hard and when the going gets tough, you know,00:23:26

Speakerbut they start to to put their discretionary effort towards work00:23:32

Speakerat home. We call that engagement.00:23:35

SpeakerOh absolutely, it’s interesting! So many00:23:38

Speakersometimes you guys have talked and you’re like. Oh, I got in trouble for doing this now do math, but I go wherever we land as we say it, because we we didn’t yeah, we we got were given a hard time, rather than any time. We could take it to the top and would have been supported because they knew we were making stuff happen. So if someone else sorry00:23:59

Speakergrapes, then maybe you guys should do it. You know it’s like who’s holding you back. I I had iced ever man just say what was going on with your group because was so excited all the time when I come. The next media does have a joint, medium red red retina hide anything here. He now is learnt the veep one of the top vips. There did a study00:24:19

Speakeron the organization you want to find out who were considered the best leaders by the people and what and what are they doing chores for the people feel that outlay and bob was a top guy, and then people said okay, let’s find out what do we do rather have it. They never told me by the way00:24:39

Speakerwe let me get the big head, but00:24:42

Speakerit wouldn’t matter at neptune was doing anyway.00:24:46


Speakerbut it’s minutes it’s it’s it’s. I know it’s the right thing to do and it’s taken a long, long term view of of the people on the relationship in wine, the best for them, whether they’re working for you right now or or if they leave and go somewhere else. You want the best for them. In fact, we had a know. You remember ah helen00:25:07

Speakermario has it is this. Is this is a wonderful story? She was. We did a a long search for a designer and it does not. I turned desire since it we look broadly in there, because we want to find the best person to invest in an area00:25:27

Speakerfound with fans herb or the team found a day there with they were doing they they end up in prison kid. Well, we we think we identify either. I personally I look great. When does she start? Well, there’s just one thing: what’s that00:25:43

Speakershe has a head: tattoo00:25:46

Speakercome again,00:25:48

Speakerwon’t have her head is shaved and she’s got a dragon tattoo on her head, whispering into her ear suffolk, oh boy had like and then long hair on the other side and then, when she had to, she was just flat portion of it over to us all. Look normal00:26:03

Speakerand I said well wish you the best candidate dans down. Yes, then we’re gonna hire and so in than word can get out an organization. Once again, it’s like bother are trying to you know, get back at the organization or something and ever the the president, the cabinet office, talking about this person there well with his here’s, what we did the process00:26:23


Speakerand and- and I heard she has a head tattoo while, yes, she does, in fact, but such is also has a masters in in fine arts. She has eight years experience related experience and what we we have none of right now, the department as I I don’t know- I don’t know you’re up to it like and now is called the mumbling,00:26:44

Speakeran organization that we, how we’re trying to pull from the other room. Amber other remember this bar, I said: well, it’s not going to go down like this with they. When I got a bunch of temporary tattoo, is rob department to wear on her first day to welcome her emptive with it off. I guess it, people other you will cease all. I guess you think that’s funny having to hire someone to00:27:05

Speakerdo there. Oh it did did. Did you hear that she has a master’s in fine arts said? Oh no, and no one mentioned that if you have it so we we we, we dealt head on with the the rumblings and and bladed an open case and in her first six months, she’s she did more to set up the next eight years, the department00:27:25

Speakerin in what she offered- and you know after you left by years after you left. She she left was leading the organization and her husband got a job back and I think north carolina for our pets bring have got go. Was she was the first remote employee of the company was back in like two thousand and nine ninety,00:27:45

Speakeryes, seven or something like an, and I I remember when she’s going there, we had a big competitor. Their dd. I in I knew my counterpart, and I was going to you know is: is gonna recommend er into our competition? Basically, I go alyssa really get in trouble, so I went to a can blanche.00:28:05

SpeakerWritten said, can’t here’s the deal, I got the disperses brubeck. I could set them up with a with a job there, but be with our competitor, and can god bless me said the same thing is edward? Was she good for us? She was the best. Well, why weren’t you in and I did and she did get an offer she didn’t take it. You end up working for us remotely by00:28:25

Speakerthe that’s the way you treat people when, when they’re, when you truly invested in them either. You know you met some scott up front about this. This evolution is of work and really what it boils down to way back when, when people had their own businesses, your own ranches may need help what they do, they hired a hand. It’s own employees were00:28:45

Speakerpaid hands, people were hired for their physical attributes and then people got little bit smarter there, and they said you know after few decades said, you know what we’re making a lot of mistakes here, but that I noticed joe x over here does make that many mistakes you don’t like is using his head he’s making really good decisions, so people then dawned on me.00:29:05

SpeakerGonna hire people for their smarts as well, not just their heads, and then it’s always been the last thirty years, or so people say you know what we got a we got to approach and we gotta embrace the entire person at work because they’re not working for us or not works for the company they’re starting to realize they work for themselves and if they work for themselves are gonna, go to a p00:29:26

Speakerplace that addresses every part of themselves. Mind body and spirit, had heart hands, and so that’s what’s happening today. Is companies that are really smart, they’re, saying we’re going to take advantage of we’re going to give opportunities where people can live in an invite in work, an environment that honors their spirit, which means they don’t have a lot on enjoyment00:29:46

Speakerright. Absolutely I mean that’s. Actually one of the the the measures of engagement are people allowed to do what they do best00:29:54

Speakerthe dead galaxies? It’s it’s one of the leading indicators of engaged employee that they they strengths. Finders and again it is yeah yeah sniff. So I really really bad example of the tattoos of when, when yours lady showed up to work on a per se, what a great way to one00:30:14

Speakernormalize yeah the thing that made her different and not make her feel at a place to welcome her to the team three onboard her. If you’re you just keep listing off all the different things of reasons why that was actually such a great idea, but again in in in your guises, lane00:30:33

Speakeris well I’m sure people had a great ball. You walk around tattoos for the day to right, yeah, it finishes. It is a very sweet, very sweet woman, and it was also like have it it. It was before taxes were as popular as they are today. I had any issues in the days when it was it an image or a symbol of00:30:53

Speakerrebecca rebelliousness in a rebellion. Nowadays, it’s a symbol of of being a part of the whole pack hood,00:31:01

Speakerbut it it. I remember talking to her about it. As you said words, it was. It was kind of her showing her dedication to the arts in allen and, and she had other friends it had done similar things if it was an to profession. So it’s like okay, why I never heard that, but that whatever works for you works for me,00:31:21

Speakerso so guys, we’ve we’ve talked about. You know incorporating it into organizational culture, so bad for me, yo, is towards my leading organization domain. Are we talked about how we can make it more fine for the team members out there and leading your team, but my I guess my final year of theme I wanna hit on here is:00:31:41

Speakeris how to how can I make my own work? Fine, you know. I go through periods where I’m doing just mundane madness, paperwork and stuff like this, like. How can I accede make myself enjoy that unique tips or advice for me there? As I said, sarah do a had an effect. I would love to hear them. It’s it’s00:32:01

Speakeramazing. What one my big learnings in this in this whole project was in ot. If we interviewed00:32:07

Speakerin terms of what made things fun for their own work. No one had the same answer and it just guy really surprised me because I had enough. He asked me what spun well, that’s it when you’re laugh and you’re having fun at nuff said you know it. But yes, my wife, it’s fun said know what I’ve done and she said well, the fun is when you’ve worked hard and you get home00:32:28

Speakerand he had a good day. Could you accomplished a lot? That’s fun! Oh really!00:32:34

SpeakerWell. What an insult here galen had the same answer twice have I have off gave her ten more things to do the next day,00:32:43

Speakerbut you know so. For example, you you could have improv and admired stuff us legacy can play play games with yourself sake, say we get something to dreading on doing set, set a timer for twenty minutes and see how fast you can get it done playing you it, and you did last time, for example, where some people00:33:03

SpeakerI like to listen to music. I had this one woman, ah, that she said when, when I really wanna have have fun I put on ah in two thousand and fifteen00:33:16

Speakeryo yo ma00:33:17

Speakerperformed out alive three hour conference ugh a concert rather far for eight thousand people from memory, and it was box. Six concern goes further and ass end into it, because when I, when I hear that music, I I feel, like god, god is moving through his hands and the makes with00:33:37

Speakeram working. I feel more meaningful and- and I got off the phone with her and I’d, I make fun of internet, didn’t cost anything and I appeared on and she was right, no matter what you’re doing read your listen, that’s beautiful music is so moving. That makes would have you doing more meaningful. So it’s it’s true.00:33:58

SpeakerSix really, we have one is a woman who works for our publisher. She changed her to do list to a finalist till she says, I’m just going to start looking at these things a lot differently. It’s not a it’s! Not a cask is not a nato state. It’s a positive thing. It’s fun it because it’s an opportunity if you dread it, then you’re good,00:34:18

Speakerto put it off mitigate dreaded more, can be hard to do announce a a block and a in a you. You gotta have ways to deal with that to suit up and and get over there, and we all have roles in mundane. Things is part of our our work. She you know very. We have to do virtually there’s some companies at every ten. They have a midi, they say. Okay, we00:34:38

SpeakerI want all of our participants here to take on a different persona, shall give yourself a different name and even use a different picture. Bacharach wear a hat pin out. I could be hat yell crazy hat day or whatever it is, but a year were only limited by our creativity. And again00:34:57

Speakerwe don’t say no to let to highlight other’s ideas are, if they’re safe in their fight.00:35:03

SpeakerIt’s let’s do it. Let’s, let’s embrace him sounds sounds pretty simple to me, says know: what are you guys find? You funny looks or sounds good. Let’s do it00:35:14

Speakerjoe. This has been a interesting conversation, something that probably needs to get had. No more often00:35:21

Speakeraround workplaces be taken more seriously earlier me, I had sound like an oxymoron to have fun more seriously,00:35:29

Speakerbut wherever up wrapping up here are going to wind down slowly, but before we do, you call it quits from the show I got a couple of questions are the first question asked holding us here at peak performance, leadership, podcast and according to you, both bob and mario? Oh bobbing go first or your second. What makes a great leader00:35:51

Speakera great leader? Well, I think it’s someone that takes seriously the things we’ve been talking about. That takes the the the other, the people that they’re working with that are working for them and puts them first known peter drucker says a man’s worth is getting the work done through others.00:36:09

SpeakerIs that doesn’t mean proving you’re the smartest person in the room? It doesn’t mean micromanaging doesn’t mean, take a step back and do it because you don’t trust the person that means systematically going to the person and seen how tall people were created in how are they doing and how can I is raising. I could do to help you00:36:30

Speakerand systematically ask and are they excited about their job and, if they’re not talking about, why not? What can get him back in that level of excitement talking about with with what they wanna do next00:36:42

Speakerand and what they need to do to let line up that for their career. I can’t promise someone a promotion, for example, but I can promise them that you can help them any way you can be prepared, so they can take on that promotion weather’s with the current company you’re with a different company, and so it is having having their best00:37:02

Speakerinterests at heart. First and foremost, I say makes for a great leader00:37:07

Speakerdomino attic cats. I agree with all of that. I’m gonna add: that’s all great leaders see things I could be and they say well, why not00:37:17

Speakerand then they’re able to keep continually communicate that message in ways of what does vision could be and they put it in ways that people can see themselves in it00:37:28

Speakerand, and so everything else bob said, I think, follow following snatch the thing a great leader: does they listen?00:37:35

SpeakerThey listened to feedback, they listen to their direct reports and listen to customers and colleagues and then finally, there are open and honest with themselves and they listen to themselves,00:37:48

Speakerand I think when, when a person does that they’re, a fantastic leader,00:37:53

Speakerawesome gents love the answers and the final thing is: how can people find you can any fall? You shameless plugs are allowed, have animals and I’ll get married? Let you go first, this time that you can find me through bob’s website. You bought doctor bob.00:38:08

SpeakerOh, why you have a website, you I’d, I I I shall we do a lot of work together in and out and also when you visit the website, it’s a great place to get the biggest discount possible for our buck,00:38:22

Speakerand so the is also available at barnes and noble and amazon and audible on odyssey. And if you go online, please get it from a book shop, dot org, which is support, small small bookstores, but I met w w w dot two mile group dot com and bob is dead.00:38:42

SpeakerYeah w w doctor bob nelson dotcom d, r b, o be any ala so in in that has our all services consulting speaking00:38:54

Speakercoaching as well as online bookstore00:38:58

Speakerin all the all of it integrates riyadh and many more resources for ah00:39:03

Speakerin video clips talks all kinds of stuff times wilson. Also. This is my thirty first book and ass for honor. To do that with mario is his first book and I got thirty more to go.00:39:18

SpeakerDo you do the next thirty,00:39:21

Speakerbut I speak on all the topics, my books and and consult on the things we talked about in terms of creating a culture that is more meaningful for hoo boy didn’t know you had that. Even this is the original. How many printing says it’s got to about sixty four third now and that’s all by almost three million copies yeah little less00:39:40

Speakernet, but the apply for the bunch there00:39:44

Speakerfor the forty, odd and sousa just listening mirrors, holding up a thousand one ways to reward employees by doctor bob nelson so will throw that in the show notes off a regular listener is always it’s easy to find all these different resources that the guys mentioned. I just go to moving toward leadership, dot com, four slash, one, nine three one! Ninety three, the links curl00:40:04

Speakerin the show notes. Gentlemen. Thank you for your time, thanks for coming out and speaking to us,00:40:10

SpeakerI’d have more fun cause you know on. I. I sat back with this with my microphone on you. For most of this calm conversation is just chuckled away. You to just go, and at at south is messed up my fun. While it was fun to stick with this guy. So thanks, they get to have a say hello to your uncle forest hill right,00:40:28

Speakersir paul.