In a world roiled by unprecedented change, effective leadership is becoming even more essential. No single approach will provide the ultimate solution to the challenges that change poses. Rather, it will be a confluence of ideas, strategies, and actions that will prove effective in managing and making the most of sweeping change. The world that existed yesterday will be decidedly different from that of tomorrow. It will take a complete and adaptable toolkit to cope effectively with that ongoing cycle of reinvention.
Faisal Hoque is an accomplished entrepreneur, senior executive, author, thought leader, public speaker, and advisor to management teams and BODs with more than 25 years of cross-industry success. He is the founder of SHADOKA, NextChapter, and other companies; they focus on enabling sustainable and transformational changes.
Throughout his career, he has developed over 20 commercial business and technology platforms and worked with public and private sector giants such as US Department of Defense (DoD), GE, MasterCard, American Express, Northrop Grumman, CACI, PepsiCo, IBM, Home Depot, Netscape, Infosys, French Social Security Services, Gartner, Cambridge Technology Partners, JP Morgan Chase, CSC, and others. What sets Hoque apart is the unique position and perspective he has always maintained, which is grounded in hardcore technology with deep roots in leading-edge management science.
Topics
During this interview Faisal and I discuss the following topics:
- What trends he sees in 2023
- How to combat misinformation as a leader
- What the 4th industrial revolution is and how to take advantage of it
- How use empathy as a leader in 2023
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Transcript
The following is an AI generated transcript which should be used for reference purposes only. It has not been verified or edited to reflect what was actually said in the podcast episode.
Pfizer, sir, welcome to the show it’s so good to have you here today
00:00:08
Speaker
day for having me scott.
00:00:11
Speaker
So here we are it’s twenty twenty three to beginning of it, and I’d like to get your perspective on where we’re at now in you, as as an author as a leadership development expert. Where do you see us going in the future for the next young year or so?
00:00:30
Speaker
What’s point: what are your thoughts? There
00:00:34
Speaker
look I mean, as we know, world has gone to a tremendous thud of changes in love that three to five years
00:00:42
Speaker
collingwood pandemic. Then then, you know the climate change lot of gravy, social media misinformation, types of things
00:00:56
Speaker
and and then we have a host of new technological revolution that has happened as we get into twenty twenty three we’re also noticing we’d started called mid-life, the air.
00:01:10
Speaker
You know a tremendous market uncertainty in terms of where things are headed into the financial stability, a recession, inflation, etc, etc, so that we’re for sure and buyers gained some normalcy about the bizarre and several times as it was
00:01:30
Speaker
probably last couple of years. So from that perspective, I don’t think whole lot of changed if anything it some people are more fatigued than ever
00:01:42
Speaker
now. I I agree with that. Last statement. People are definitely fatigue more. Never I think people are fatigued over covets. I think people are fatigued over the constant change. I e brought an interesting one, miss information, which I definitely would blight to get your your thoughts on it in a minute
00:02:02
Speaker
and in pt on climate change. I think people are definitely just fatigued and in especially in just the traditional work life now we saw some some of the air changes which have brought paws of change. I e hybrid, more flexible work schedules and routines and stuff like that,
00:02:21
Speaker
but I don’t feel like er. I don’t believe that it’s fully been caught on. You know brought on board with you know, big mass of companies and to the point where it it’s more of a status quo, vice it’s still something that is new upcoming and kind of out of the norm feist the norm,
00:02:41
Speaker
but this misinformation thing that you mentioned. This is an interesting one. So when we talk about misinformation, you know, I always think of a pilot politics and the you know: that’s the wars, the ongoing
00:02:56
Speaker
the global competition per se, but from a leadership standpoint. How does this impact our leaders and how might they combative out there for their teams there for their organizations and for themselves?
00:03:12
Speaker
Look I’m in it. If there’s a psychological impact right and and what have social media, that is that it puts people in the echo chamber is based on their interest and their social radius. Whatever you wanna call it either the psychological impact on everybody that lives
00:03:32
Speaker
breathes through those kind of an operator that they’re being constantly fed on their equity member right. So so that misinformation is not just related to politics, it could be anything from the current events of in making bigger deal out of it. A local issue could be
00:03:52
Speaker
come back about some scientific or
00:03:56
Speaker
our research output. That could be things that are happening in a particular company
00:04:04
Speaker
trump. You know think about all the travel have argued that we have having lost a few months while we are trying to get from places to places of work over the holiday season, so it it. It has. A wide range of thing, then, is very difficult to really get to the bottom of what is true and what’s not true and
00:04:24
Speaker
and what’s really going on from all perspective, and as that and I’ll take it once the father think about a you’re, a researcher and and like I do a lot of research for my writing and four for running. My company is and what luck? But it’s also very difficult to get accurate information. You don’t know what the
00:04:44
Speaker
what’s real and what’s not real or looked at the market. The market goes up about, based on misinformation, about a particular accompany your particular market trend and whatnot righto. So it it’s a it’s a very difficult to navigate that as an individual, but it’s obviously very difficult to know,
00:05:04
Speaker
navigate that as a as a leader or when you’re trying to lead a whole bunch of people that were fuck works. For you follows you you’re influencing them one way or another or you’re, trying to promote the and push out your offering to the marketplace to the wider, wider variety of
00:05:24
Speaker
element. That plays a role, and he know he slept in a little bit on on technological advancement in august. We’re really in the fourth industrial revolution in the technology. We’re all kind of different technology has converged we’re not just talking about information technology, but in know you look at
00:05:45
Speaker
manufacturing technology information to galilee biological technology. Everything is converging in one place votes, so it’s getting very complicated to leave lead and make a living in context of those kind of technology and staying abreast of it. Then, and in know of
00:06:05
Speaker
that, moved forward to it’s complicated. It’s a you know this term book out, I’m sure your you’re already have been given a while. Overall, the answer would be no that basically the world the book of it is exponentially grown. It has a little york and on a nonstop I thought that’s what it really boils down to
00:06:26
Speaker
yeah volker africa is definitely a solid turn to use in this day and age and for the audience. If you’re not familiar with the term, we do use a lot and first time we actually heard that term on this podcast was with a former navy seal commander. Mark divine in a vuca stands for view, ca so far
00:06:45
Speaker
volatile, ambiguous, complex and
00:06:50
Speaker
I was fit a
00:06:53
Speaker
anyway I’ll get back to you on that much. But it is a solid term to use up er sorry, volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous theory of poker for our area eric, so it is definitely new term to use for this day and age and your your your your points on this
00:07:13
Speaker
operation are very interesting to me, because when I hear there is a
00:07:18
Speaker
yo there’s, a lack of trust, you have to do a lot more and your background. Checking of information yet to you dive into deeper rainy in. In that to me, it just sounds signals a you’re, a requirement for a lack of trust, which often talked about as a cornerstone of leadership and when you’re leading
00:07:39
Speaker
teams in you you get in your organization. You have to trust that you have to trust that the team and organization are doing the right things and they’re there for the right reasons, but same time when you’re young hiring people how easy this day and age, you always even seem like yo qualifications, diplomas, yoga forged, and so that’s it. For
00:07:59
Speaker
former misinformation, you know the the padding of resumes people getting better at the you know, just kind of pumping themselves up making them look better than what they are and that’s just from an individual standpoint. He went deeper, obviously with the markets in the world situation and how large misinformation is there,
00:08:19
Speaker
air, which is so true. Now you brought up the the fourth, a technical, logical revolution, a couple of times there and I’d like to dive into that a bit and you’ll get a better understanding. What what are you exactly? What you mean? What impact does it have for the leaders out there right now who are leading teams in
00:08:39
Speaker
you know anywhere from mid small mid to even large companies, and how can he take advantage of this so that taken to effectively read better? So I mean in a in a in a simplest term. If you look at the you know
00:08:55
Speaker
a window into their sturdiness real revolution, the fourth industrial revolution, the second and first, so we gone from ma in the last revolutionary was through. There was credible information revelation where we had accessibility to informational. A lot of basic, ah, hang of information distribution mechanism got in place,
00:09:15
Speaker
the the internet, then that sort of thing. Now what we’re seeing is that we are a highly of it. The automation is getting intelligent because of artificial intelligence and machine learning, learning and that sort of thing, but we’re also seeing in a robotics
00:09:36
Speaker
where, where shop floors are getting automated, but we’re also seeing that in the medical field, where you serious a robotic surgery and the surgery and that sort of thing, so a lot of the technology is kind of all coming together. It’s no longer well, this is information technology and it is rob
00:09:56
Speaker
politics, business, artificial intelligence, a little biological technology and and below mechanical of technology they’re all converging in one place. I will look at the cars you drive or the forty years are. When you go to a doctor’s office, I’d be what you’re going to serve as a supposed to give tests
00:10:16
Speaker
al qaeda coming together. So what’s the impact of that? The impact is that skill
00:10:24
Speaker
force are are going to be dramatically changed, attained and changing right, because the things that used to be mundane work is getting automated. You have a better way of making decision, because now, ah the the information you can access lot faster than the can
00:10:44
Speaker
could a previously like, for example, if you look at a patient care right, oven and the amount of data you can gather on a particular patient and a diagnosis of a patient that has lot faster a lot better. The way we are manufacturing cars or men or the boy you’re manufacturing products are much better, but that also has impact on workforce,
00:11:04
Speaker
because the workforce is no longer required to do. Though many of the mundane weren’t, so it it’s a it’s basically an angel, the creating of situation where people are forced to learn new skills and as a leader, he have to be able to leverage those tech
00:11:24
Speaker
quality, but also maybe bring up this scale force out into the workforce. Skill set at a different level than what it used to be. It’s a bot of a leadership responsibility, but also the inner individual leadership, but in individual responsible. But it’s it’s an opportunity because he could produce. You could reach out.
00:11:44
Speaker
You could.
00:11:46
Speaker
Ah, he disappeared your product and services in a much different way than you could ever hear, used to read, ’em and look at the supply chain. Ah, a model that had attained with blockchain and an rf id him, and it’s completely fit all look at a simple example at a restaurant you because a pandemic,
00:12:06
Speaker
you know we we we introduced this whole lotion of your peacoat and you read. The trp card comes up the menu look at the menu. We we kind of started a barrel, a real watery food, so that somebody delivers it. But now it’s in a restaurant rather than later, less people are more and more people are now not begun, pick up producing a
00:12:26
Speaker
ethical manner. You have a cure people that could look it up and exodus of the whole behavioral pattern of social behavior pattern. Interaction pattern, the way you work, we really had changed so that that obviously changes the way we are lead and and producer one of the things we covered a live in.
00:12:46
Speaker
Is that- and you know that thought so, while these are going on that humid humanistic have that skill sets that humanity skillset. That focus on mindful lesson and empathy and and ad transformational leadership capability with inspire and influence has also
00:13:07
Speaker
a dramatically being impacted, because in order to lead now we have to have much more empathetic way of understanding what other people needs and what other people wanted to do. Or you mentioned little bit about the remote work, vs hybrid work in a vat or a leader’s, a notion of meeting that workforce called from empathy.
00:13:27
Speaker
You have to understand where people are coming from right, so so all that has asked dramatically changed. Then people that all style of command control leadership as is, and that really doesn’t work are you going to become, was picked up because people have lot more often than they used to have.
00:13:47
Speaker
There is of solid things in there and I really I really enjoyed the restaurant example and I’ll. Tell you why he brought me back to you me going to montreal with my brother to check out a hockey game last year and we went to a restaurant and you’re exactly right. The the
00:14:05
Speaker
the menu is qr code, but not only was the menu a qr code. There was also a way for us to settle our bill right there from our table from silence, which was amazing experience for me as a customer cause. I sat down and I check the menu the waitress came over, took our orders immediate
00:14:26
Speaker
lee, and then once we were done, I was able to pay and I’ll tell you that as a customer of a restaurant, the most frustrating part, I hand is when I’m done and I’m just waiting to leave, but I’m stuck there because I haven’t paid yet and the end waitress or waiters are too busy to come over and check on in on us.
00:14:46
Speaker
Whereas with this I was able to just pay straight up now as a leader was that mean like I’m talking about from a from a customer standpoint, but from a leader was that mean it means now you’re spending less on menus because you’re producing them physically. So whenever you get a menu change, you don’t need to produce young fifty to a higher menus anymore, which is a cost
00:15:06
Speaker
psst you can play you. Can you can actually in give your your head cook the the leeway to play with his menu more because it’s not going to cost you a couple of thousand dollars every time he changes a single item on the menu so now you’re you’re you’re, giving them more flexibility to do so because all you’re doing is
00:15:26
Speaker
going in and editing a webpage, which literally takes thirty seconds and you’re right. It’s less stress on the servers because they’re doing less, not looking roman, you stop paying or not getting ill processing payments if they don’t have to so and so forth. So, overall, this is a heck. A lot more efficient was actually more effective. It ill in in the knee
00:15:46
Speaker
enables people to to you use their abilities more ill. I e the chef, it places less stress on your serving staff, and then you get a better customer experience. That’s if you look at it from a positive standpoint. Now do people looking for negative standpoint while I’m getting lost customer service and paying for less because of not talking to an individual
00:16:07
Speaker
young person. Well, if you look at it that way, sure, but that’s how you look at you, gotta look for the positives and to me that has lives in that specific example, at the negatives and for the listener to your job as a leader is to look for those positives and push hard on those positives, while medicating the negatives yeah. I’m gonna look lots and
00:16:27
Speaker
back a little bit on this on that example, since we’re talking about it, buttoned think about that, but the you are the restaurant owner or your butt executive chef. Who was the restaurant? Your role has gotten so much more complicated than just knowing how to cook and how to come up with a great manner, because
00:16:47
Speaker
have you just automated whole bunch of stuff in your restaurant right, not to mention that, even though you’re getting the customer you ever promote yourself on social media? I e after know that the process into love. How long does it take to get the order because of the water cycle a lot faster
00:17:07
Speaker
you know and and and that the peoples of patience level is not last, so you have to kind of thing through the process, technology and people element of it, and- and that requires a different kind of a skill and leadership trade as a a b, a business owner. Although you may be a
00:17:27
Speaker
chef who alter your ear, you think you’re a shepherd you’re out of, but don’t I go forget about the fact that you are a business owner who has to make that a profitable and give that customer experience that you talk about, that that bring the customer back over and over again right. So so it it’s a whole different
00:17:47
Speaker
way of thinking, and he can think traditional way that I’m going to go away like a culinary school and I’m just using that as an example and I’m going to learn how to cook and that’s where it’s there and that actually begins restive, far more up the equally important and and maybe a different
00:18:08
Speaker
a level of complexity, because that, though the metal trades, your natural trait, is an artist who likes to cook. I like I like to cook, but you know it. It’s a different way of thinking. Rights of every profession has to think that a doctor, ah
00:18:25
Speaker
a business owner, a entrepreneur, a technology or product developer like I am you know, except accident, we all have to think very differently that we use. We did an evil two three years ago, right to bats the talent, but that also have opportunity. Opportunity is better servers,
00:18:45
Speaker
more volume, more efficient city, less costly about the challenges he got to really think through the backbone of of how all this comes together. And how do I get a note of that and acquire the right? Skillset keep them here,
00:19:05
Speaker
you know, and and and and connect with my audience to to make contact successful,
00:19:14
Speaker
yeah. No, those are definitely great points for sure. I definitely made a sound like it, a simple: where is he he bring me back to earth and say yo, it’s highly neo, obviously highly complex and you’re you’re, absolutely right for sure in in with that, though, you mentioned something earlier, and that was empty,
00:19:32
Speaker
pithy and motion intelligence and being empathetic leader and how the old style of young chain of command directive leadership is going to the wayside. Let’s get your your thoughts. Did you know a bit deeper on that? How might leaders best show be empathetic towards their people? What will steal
00:19:52
Speaker
you getting the results that they desire, because what we hear is: oh empathetic leaders are soft, and then it’s nice nice, except for when the rubber meets the road, and then the organization doesn’t necessarily get the results that are looking for. I don’t necessarily buy into that fully. I believe that there is a tie.
00:20:12
Speaker
I’m a place for empathy also believe that there’s a time and place for more attractive style. So I’d like to hear your thoughts on all that and how might leaders best employ empathy in the workplace today,
00:20:26
Speaker
I’m going to come back to that in a second, but let’s, let’s uh, let’s tackled the cushion of at least two concept of leadership would prefer sorry, empathy to leadership and performance. At these two separate thing, then how do you really better performance? And so, let’s not confuse measuring performance and holding peace
00:20:45
Speaker
apple that comfortable with the inspiring and influencing them by understanding light where they’re coming from and how to really move them forward right. So so there is no substitute for process and measurement. You know that even the restaurant example that we just talked about it falls apart. If you cannot measure the performance and price
00:21:05
Speaker
access environment, I to suggest there that that the empathy and and and that of mindfulness or whatever you have the emotional intelligence which we talked and nauseum have a lot of research around the topic. He is a conscious practice because you know, if you think about the individual, we are all very much
00:21:26
Speaker
a self preserving a species where we want to protect ourself first and then others as we always think about ourselves. So it takes a conscious practice to think about where the other person is coming from and where their difficulties are and and make creating an environment where they can shine. Not just how can I be so
00:21:46
Speaker
successful, he can be successful as a leader if your people are not producing and they’re, not successful. So, for example, you know think about this. This whole debate about you know fulltime at office are, are some hybrid or whatever I mean in a when people eat when you? I believe this, and I know this because I have prepared a globe
00:22:06
Speaker
all remote team, all over the world and a pub before I mean I had this dream, save the environment.
00:22:13
Speaker
I dunno the last twenty years. I don’t have the debate about. Does everybody needs to be sitting next to me to be productive, but I mean think about when you give the flexibility when somebody at his father has to take care of a child or mother has to take care of, ah in other tile or or enter. You have aging parents that need to be taken care of. If you can do
00:22:33
Speaker
that, are he as a as a worker, I’m mark much more subtle to focus on my work and as a leader, I have to understand that the need my particular resource has, and I want to give him or her the ability to do to to fulfill that. So it takes a conscious effort to connect with people to understand
00:22:53
Speaker
than what the difficulties are. That is the practice of empathy. That is the practice of emotional intelligence they’re, not as I need desk by tomorrow morning, get it on my desk tomorrow morning. Ain’t gonna happen does, because you part of that order. In know it’s going to happen. Only that person is motivated and uneven could get that.
00:23:14
Speaker
What is not going to be the same quality, because that person really doesn’t care? People cares more if you care about them, except so basic, so simple right, but we often forget that, and- and so so, but he does require conscious effort, because you know we also have to say okay well, how does that relate to performance? And
00:23:34
Speaker
how does that relate to output? That that is? That is going to be meaningful? I took the correlation and causation for each one of them and as a leader, these are the things you have to think through and in as that memory who talked about the even the restaurant example of it at the that’s an example of the owner being empath
00:23:54
Speaker
the to the customer that the customer doesn’t have the time and customer needs the best experience, and they want to be out of there with a great experience. But even that solution is driven by empathy towards the customer experience I took, he can look at empathy and emotional intelligence at a much broader topic,
00:24:14
Speaker
the dwyer care about you know another person like this conversation you and are having right now in a a a a a a reflection of mindfulness and empathy that this is the most important conversation we could have right at this moment right. So, if we’re going to have the conversation, we need to give full attention to it, be at present and
00:24:34
Speaker
be at the moment writer. If you’re not, then we’re gonna have a good quality, conversation, etc. It goes much broader and it does require a pretty conscious practice for everybody involved. You know to to do that because it doesn’t necessarily always come naturally, because we, we are very much distracted with all kinds of stuff that is going on in
00:24:54
Speaker
our parcel situation and personal lives.
00:24:59
Speaker
I I really love how you clarified those different aspects, because I do find that they do get misconstrued out there and people do you see, do believe that that are kind of linked for as young, as you said, they’re, not due two different things, and I really enjoyed the part where he said you know you can
00:25:19
Speaker
the empathetic yet still hold people count to count for the performance and so on so forth, lot of good points,
00:25:26
Speaker
a who’s, a couple of different communities which are linked to the show. Obviously, first is a is a mastermind community and for for people who are looking to develop their leadership skills where we meet weekly and then the other one I host is a m is a a freak me forever or anyone and everyone, and that once host on face
00:25:46
Speaker
emma- and I asked true answer- questions out from time to time or look for people’s input, and I was like looking for young audiences input on podcast episodes for twenty twenty three and someone came to the ah
00:26:01
Speaker
with the topic of how to keep people from bringing their their home issues to work, which I thought was an interesting one in your kind of kind of yost brought that out to me said: let’s get your input on that because of everything you just said regarding empathy and being empathetic leader. Yet
00:26:21
Speaker
still not, you know looking for results and demanding accountability. So what are your thoughts, their separation of home and work, work and home? Should the two never touch candle to never touch and how, as a leader we might you know he help the our members balance that
00:26:42
Speaker
I’d look at first it it? It is not should that should those two things never touch is not a practicality, because we’re human being with that many different roles and whatever happens at home or it impacts our work and what our war, whatever impact. We have at work, the impact our home life. So
00:27:01
Speaker
as a leader, he our job to to make sure that the people who are working with us and for us are our has the at least the confidence to say I’m having a bad day, and that doesn’t mean that I sit with that particular person and spend half a day. Listening to all the things
00:27:21
Speaker
are going on from a you know, their dog is sick and child is not doing well in school and an and is having issues with their ah their aging parents and etc, etc. Writer, so, but it is, it is the leader job to make sure that if there is a serious crisis in a
00:27:41
Speaker
live from a family point of view, that they are open to tell you that they are having a crisis, and it is your job as a leader to guide them in the right direction where they can help. It’s not your job to help them because you’re not an expert in helping them in all areas of their lives. But it is your job to kind of guide
00:28:02
Speaker
them where they can get the help from rights of a edit. It’s enough, if somebody had like a nagging a we all, we have all met people who are disadvantaged out of the air and nonstop negative energy and and can’t stop talking about all the thing that goes on on a daily basis.
00:28:22
Speaker
This, but I mean inner soul, so he he no. He is. He is also your job to cause them not to do that because you have to tell them was the back of their negativity and their non-stop issues that they bring to the work not just on them, but also that people that are working right. So
00:28:42
Speaker
so there’s a fine balance in know and and as an individual. It’s our job to kind of focus when we’re working, we’re working when we’re dealing with our home issues were hot villa with home issues I looked mentally less is a big part of of all the arab. It has turned into a global pandemic.
00:29:02
Speaker
So as a leader, it’s it’s very important that we we we gotta, focus on on out the wellbeing of our our people, because, if they’re not they’re, not wild and not to do well at work that just how I would go so so, there’s a balance. Death like ina empathy and performance tracking. It’s not that
00:29:22
Speaker
dichotomy. It’s gotta be to related same way. I him professionally and got in and guiding them what they can get backward help. It is interrelated. It’s not a dichotomy
00:29:37
Speaker
nah! I. I definitely grew with all that asked. I always say young we’re, not two people can split someone in half right yup. He order and we’re not. Two people of work will bleed in the home in her just as much as homo bleeding to work. But how do we manage that? How do we? How do we
00:29:54
Speaker
manage it? How do we enable it to the point where the person feels like they are supported and taken care of, etc that that’s what our job our role as leaders, but I also do like your point on setting boundaries and limits tune in allowing to inform the person. Okay was what is acceptable and why
00:30:14
Speaker
what’s not necessarily acceptable so alger points off as faisal sir. This has been a fantastic conversation with ogre things come to an end or before wrap up. Do got a couple of last questions for you, the first being the question as all the guests here at peak performance, lucia podcast and as current you, what makes a great lie,
00:30:35
Speaker
the you know a said. They, I don’t think, there’s one singular answer, but you know, but I think this notion of the emotional intelligent is high on the top of the list. If you can’t do that, be a the
00:30:55
Speaker
and you can really discover yourself as a leader letter on. Ah, you know, connect with other people saw that this notion of annoying them the dyson to solve other console emotional intelligence.
00:31:11
Speaker
I, like that for sure and yeah. He definitely have to look inwards. First, definitely agree with that and then the final, a question of the show. How can people find you? How can they follow? You are shameless plug. It’s it’s all that you now
00:31:25
Speaker
I looked at him and you can find me all over the internet to get by me on linkedin. I ever parcel website called by the log dot com and my books are available anywhere and everywhere it sold. You know, audio words, your man ebook as well as hardcover. There are also available in airports
00:31:45
Speaker
or you can pretty much find me an impact
00:31:49
Speaker
awesome for you to listers. Always it’s easy just going to lead, don’t pass stockholm for slash two. Four. Seven to forty seven in the links or their insurance answer. Thank you for taking time out your busy schedule coming in and talking to me, but most probably to the audience out there today.
00:32:06
Speaker
Thank you for having enjoyed our conversation.