The Coach’s Way to Leadership | Lynn Guerin | Episode 180

Lynn, walk to the show

00:00:07

Speaker

great to be with you delighted to be here awesome. So we’re talk about your book coach him up coach him way up five lessons for leading the john wooden way. So I a gay I got to know how are these five lessons gonna help leaders out there hit peak performance hm

00:00:26

Speaker

here at the show. We’re talking performs leadership so leading yourself hitting their peak performance, use the leader leading your team, a e, the individuals within your organization and finally leading organization, yoda institution. So there’s lot in depth topics in this book so from your standpoint, how’s that gonna help the leaders out there today

00:00:47

Speaker

yeah

00:00:48

Speaker

well, I think I think the book represents a perhaps a change in the mindset of a lotta leaders today.

00:00:58

Speaker

I think we think that that coaching is really the new paradigm for effective leadership. I don’t know if that was always a true. We would like to say in the book that not all not all good leaders are good coaches, but all good coaches aren’t good leaders. We think

00:01:18

Speaker

there’s a whole new set of coaching skills. That’s really important today to be an effective later up with a changing workforce.

00:01:29

Speaker

It seems today that at a lot of younger people really don’t like to be bossed or supervised or a lead or managed a half, but they do seem to be a little more comfortable with being coached, because I think that’s more of a framework around the relationship, probably better.

00:01:49

Speaker

Our communication,

00:01:51

Speaker

more likely to beef be focused on how the individuals gonna benefit, maybe not quite as much focus on ultimately how the organizations got a benefit. So today I eat other leaders have all new level of challenge of making things work for the organization by making them work better for

00:02:12

Speaker

people, and we think that’s what coaching drilling all about. So what we’re really really focused on helping managers become great coaches on helping the leaders think of themselves more as a head coach, and no, that is certainly they need to have leadership skills within that framework, but, first and foremost

00:02:32

Speaker

they need to be an effective coach.

00:02:35

Speaker

I love really love that part. You mention that you know the sports of today. Don’t want to be bossed around in a whole tagline hear of the show’s lead, don’t boss, and it is really resonates with me that coaching is definitely a great way to unlock the potential in your people to get them to see their full potential.

00:02:55

Speaker

Two young get them to believe himself, sometimes when they don’t think that they have the building or the skill set to achieve something. I pushed a little bit harder to go for the extra goal here. You could easily go ahead and try to boston like no. You will do this or you can’t do this. You will type thing you rue directive at them and then you just see people to share

00:03:15

Speaker

shut down, whereas hey look of this way or changer wants it and tweet us who have you ever thought about this? Other thing, you’ll tell me why you don’t think you can do that and then you, sir, really seen the only potential unlocking from the individual. So you mention your loot new readers. The basically need to be great coaches in order to

00:03:36

Speaker

to succeed today. So what was at work like what? What what aspects are there in a great coach? Well, I think, there’s a yeah there’s a framework coach. Wouldn’t I used to like to say you know it’s a lot better to be out front where the banner then to be behind gonna whip. Ah, but the question is: what’s on that

00:03:55

Speaker

banner, you know what’s the key messaging and communication that that people really find inspiring and that’s really up an important element of of a great coach we’ve written the book around basically a coaching model of the way in which we think john wooden effectively

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Speaker

coached his entire life,

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Speaker

and it wasn’t just coaching basketball team. I mean easter people used to ask him. If did he coach his family, like he coached his team in his answer always was now I pretty much coach, my team, like that coach, my family,

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Speaker

so the ability to really create a good, loving, working understanding, understanding relationship with each person. Ah it and know that they’re really quality coaching really starts as we divided in the model really starts with the quality of a person’s thinking, and their thing,

00:04:54

Speaker

eating, obviously is gonna. Be is really gonna. Come out of the set of values set their operating under you know what their mind is really focused on what their heart is focused on. You know what they’re about a morally and what they’re about ethically and what they’re about spiritually, how they see people any important,

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Speaker

some people. Ah, you know how a coach sees the potential in each person, not what the team can outsmart complex. That’s always very critical

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Speaker

as coach would allow say, the star of the team is the team, so he was very focused on teen behavior, which organizations need to beat a day. You’re gonna develop a powerful culture. It’s gotta be more about the team than the individuals and that’s gotta be true for every individual in the team at every level of of the court

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Speaker

operation. So we got this powerful fae part model about what an effective coach looks like it. It all starts with the quality of a person’s thinking

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Speaker

that that really frames their ability to be a good coach.

00:06:02

Speaker

Her, like a lot that you said there in the first person that you came in with yoon, that the leader needs be up front. You’re holding the banner, and that really resonates with me mean basically leading by example right being of there showing people what it means to be a great member of that organization, that team being a leader within that

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Speaker

showing what’s expected, know and how to act when you fail and slip up, and all these other other things that come along with the job

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Speaker

set. That second part scott.

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Speaker

That is the second part of our model, the part. What is the quality of your thinking? But the second part is the example you set and that’s got to be as much true in terms of the person you are net, not just who you are around the office or who you are when it comes to

00:06:54

Speaker

talking to your people about the business you’re, the products through the clients answer the goals or the you know, the the big visions and dreams at a lot of companies have. But who are you date a day in the kind of person you are and the values you are. You have the way you treat people the way you talk to people,

00:07:14

Speaker

how considerate of people at a you are, but a coach would like to say that the two most important words in the dictionary were love and balance body, bring love and balanced to every single thing you do. In the example you set all day at work, and in that example is a lie is good,

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Speaker

is is the person you are at home. He can’t be one person and during the day and one person later when you go home-

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Speaker

and that was the amazing thing- a coach one’s wife used to say she could never tell when he got home from work, how the day, when whether he had a good practice, a bad practice, whether the team won or lost he. He always was on such an even keel, emotionally spiritually.

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Speaker

He he just had that consistency of high quality behavior that enabled him to be that same person. He he was one of those guys. He could talk the talk, but he was a lot more about walk the walk and setting the example in in showing people what he meant by the person he was in the life

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Speaker

he lived.

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Speaker

Our ability to lead on basically rests on both are critical. The intern in inner integrity- and I recently did a duo, monday, show, which is very short, quick, five minutes, and I called him monday leadership minute where I cry just talk for five minutes on a topic:

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Speaker

cedar, crest, mass to me or smears on my harness the time, and that was on my heart- was integrity and credibility in and mood moral of the story of that love. That episode was rent is due every single day you have to show up in lead with credibility and integrity, every priest

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Speaker

single day, every single second, every single hour, every single action that you do. You is, ultimately, I shouldn’t say, being scrutinized, but his shows the character you were so you do one thing at home and turn around and be a completely different type of person. Then that is going to speak volumes

00:09:25

Speaker

when it comes out know when things come out and and that’s what that’s from hearing for years that you have to as a leader, we have to keep her credibility. We have to keep her intervene in in vivo several people, so we we we so much dove into the second lesson for

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Speaker

or reading the coaches way there. Let’s us go back to the boomerang back to the first one, so yeah. What was that again? A yeah point? What is it’s all about the quality, your thinking, a great coach is a great thinker

00:10:02

Speaker

new years. He has a very definable philosophy on on the moat. Most important thing said that his life and his whatever is profession

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Speaker

is, is involved in it. He is a quality thinker about all of those things. A coach wouldn’t like to say used it a phrase pursue wisdom. He was always pursuing the highest quality of thinking that he possibly could

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Speaker

he will. It was a firm believer in that continuum that that, ultimately, thinking is the key element that influences your feelings, your behavior and your actions and and the quality of your thinking is really gonna- determine

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Speaker

how you think about yourself, how you think about other people, how you think about life, how you think about work, how you think about the value state that direct your thinking on a daily basis? You know when you find yourself in a bad place. Most of the time we try to change your actions, but

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Speaker

that never happens until we change our mind

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Speaker

and you’re gotta get your mind. It applies to ultimately impact the feelings said. The actions and the behavior that you’ve gotta take to be an effective coach and effective later net know, one of the things that coach had to work with that was so powerful. Was this idea of the pyramid of success? He had spent fourteen

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Speaker

ten years trying to define success from a behavioral standpoint, and then he spent the next seven decades of his life. Basically trying to live out right reset coach was all about a guy who walk the walk. The talk, while what what he walked, was basically him, as he modeled all of the behaviors on the pitch

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Speaker

pyramid of success, wonder what you mentioned very important. Integrity integrity was one of those four or five things that represented honest pyramid, a whole block of character, ideas of things like this sincerity and honesty, and reliability and integrity.

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Speaker

He these were the key things that made up basically his definition and understanding and model of character, hi character that he modeled every single day.

00:12:29

Speaker

That’s awesome! I love it. I often now sue us as leaders. We need to be more focus on the questions and then knowing the answers, because that, in turn, you know drives are people to think in in ruby. You

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Speaker

reflect and look at the situation, that’s in front of awesome hearing summer, similar thoughts from you, there alone in much greater detail and a little bit a little bit more

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Speaker

polish. That’s what’s interesting about it, as, as you mentioned, you know, the idea there about

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Speaker

you, know, thinking and and connecting to a two key ideas like integrity and and causing

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Speaker

in an affecting other people’s thinking. Jen would never never tried to tell people what to think what what he did was he caused people to think he wanted to give people the opportunity and to think for themselves, and that’s what I hear from a lotta.

00:13:37

Speaker

The younger people today in you know, when people ask me well, geez coach wouldn’t has been dead for ten years. He was ninety nine when he died. He hasn’t coached since nineteen. Seventy five, that it is the man still relevant today,

00:13:53

Speaker

while it’s more relevant than he’s ever been because of the quality of his thinking and his young people tell me that they really want to think for themselves. That’s what john wouldn’t help to teach people to do. He cause them and challenge them to think for themselves and to find the answers to life’s the most press

00:14:13

Speaker

eating problems in most of the biggest opportunities. That was one of the things that made him such a great coach. He certainly knew how to do things and knew how to think about things, but he really was really big on challenging people to think for themselves.

00:14:32

Speaker

That’s awesome, hey you! Here’s mine angus beef! When people bring up things like foes them, you know I say: there’s absolutely no, there’s, basically, nothing new leadership was that how we apply it in the way that we developer principles, though, can don’t be

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Speaker

matters right and changes through time, so go so what it was. Nineteen, seventy nine the last time he coached, but the principles of motivating and inspiring and developing people those last a lifetime last lifetimes generations, years borneo,

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Speaker

because as human beings know, that those things remain essentially almost constant pressure. Some internal or external motivation factors may change from time to time. People get logo was worried about money and perks, and all this stuff and mauro or called quality a life with sofia applied tap those principles.

00:15:30

Speaker

It stays the same. So, like you said, good stuff was forever so well. We like it’s also, we like to use the phrase timeless wisdom, and I think that really is what what john wooden thinking and teachings and writings represent, and I believe, they’re more relevant and I believe, they’re more important today than they better

00:15:50

Speaker

our band with all the cultural challenges. Oh wait. We have out there today people trying to figure out their lives in their relationships in their place. The whole world asking yourselves who matters right, but waller, everybody matters and every single individual matters,

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Speaker

ah, you know, were all made in in in god’s image, then the good lord didn’t make any junk ahead. Doesn’t expect us to act that way,

00:16:22

Speaker

and- and that’s really, our coach was all about helping people be inspired about who they are and who they can’t be and what it means to be your best and give your best effort to become her best and perform your best and oh, by the way, ultimately be in a position to help others become their best.

00:16:42

Speaker

The idea that you know the real joy in life is to help and serve serve others, no joy in life until you do something that really benefits, others that that’s where the two join life comes from and yeah he what he really loved to do was teaching coach. I it was called coach wouldn’t, but he call himself just to teach

00:17:02

Speaker

ser and that’s really what it what it was all about, teaching that help people be the best they could be

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Speaker

serving others speech. My heard seen your doctor guy who’s still serving in the container me on his day job and serving others through this podcast and through my on a side, business and all those things so odd decree conversation love it. So, let’s, let’s dive into a third, less know, there’s really. No. We had on the first two,

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Speaker

let’s dive into your demise at one and the leading by example, a sovereign to lessen or three was the not one and how computers ie atlas lesson number three is it’s all about how you teach

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Speaker

and coach imagine that yeah yeah I do think at at essentially the example you set, and the example you set coach wouldn’t believe is always the best teacher. That’s where teaching starts

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Speaker

know. Values are really caught not taught in, and people pay a lot more attention to what you’re there than what you say. But john wooden was a master teacher. I he knew all all of the principles of what a pedagogy a great education and great instruction in all of the fundamentals

00:18:17

Speaker

of the whole part hole at breaking things down into their component parts, and he had the mind of a of a bridge builder in the heart of a poet,

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Speaker

and that was a very unique set of capabilities. What it came to teaching teaching people a work very hard at being an expert in its crafty. He doesn’t think you can be a really great teacher unless guess what you really know, what you’re talking about how it really helps if

00:18:48

Speaker

you’re gonna teach to know what you’re talking about and oh by the way, it really helps if you’ve experienced what you’re trying to help others figure out, because experience is always a whatever are great teachers and and often our most negative experiences are most difficult challenges. The adversity in our life here

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Speaker

is always the best teacher. So coach wooden was a master teacher, a master at breaking down the details. He was a master at analyzing things from the standpoint of understanding what the fundamentals were. I could break down the game alive, take a break down the game of basketball. He could be

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Speaker

break down. The sentence. Has an english teacher at a new knew how to teach that he could break down upon to it’s core components and he could put it all back together. Yeah I like to see he actually went to college to be a civil engineer. He wanted to build roads and bridges

00:19:49

Speaker

when he went away to pursue initially but couldn’t work in the summer times because he had he had to hurry, couldn’t go to school in the summer time as part of their camps. Then engineers had to go through because he had to work. So, ah, ultimately, he changed his curriculum, but he really had the mind of an engineer

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Speaker

elder how he could see a bridge. He could break it down into it’s smallest components, right down to it’s basic parts, but then he had the ability to check constructed and then ultimately the lead people are crossed has the coach and motivator he was so he had this incredible body of a diverse

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Speaker

skills that helped them be just a really really great teacher of the fundamentals of the game but, more importantly, the fundamentals of the game. A life

00:20:39

Speaker

come on, I’m a bagman think we’re not great assets that any reader can have is devoted. Take big problems, break them down due to you, know smaller bite, size problems that are easily digestible, born for the team to actually understand and enable you to guide and mentor, and you teach now you brought up one interesting thing

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Speaker

thing, and that is

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Speaker

no bad experiences is, is one of the greatest teachers of all right

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Speaker

and put. It takes a lot for leaders out there to know developed a humility to be open and transparent with their themes of vogue,

00:21:19

Speaker

a young of these experiences. So what’s your best advice for the leader of their gone yeah, I do have these experiences through. You know I messed up or I made a mistake her in whenever something along those lines, but I want my team to see that failure per side of me but yeah. I know it will be a great lesson. Fourth know what would your best

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Speaker

vice for them up there? Well, I asset later who you trying to kid am right. I mean we all met the way all make mistakes in life

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Speaker

and on

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Speaker

and and we all have the opportunity to learn from those mistakes.

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Speaker

You know we hear the word authentic a lot while he knows somebody that comes off as if somebody that knows it all has done it all has never failed at any of it. There’s no way that person’s gonna come off as authentic mean you. Can he see right through that pretty quickly?

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Speaker

And you know, coaches, coaches, most fundamental teaching growing up started with something very simple that his dad gaping know in something called the seven point: creed that was be true to yourself.

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Speaker

What was it off any later? We spend our whole life trying to figure out who we really are, while a big part of their analysis is, you know, whatever flaws, what are the mistakes we’ve made? Whatever our misunderstandings, you know we, we all grew up there different circumstances with imperfect parents in improve

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Speaker

big situations and imperfect relatives in an imperfect situations and decisions that we’ve made. Those are all of our teachers in life and trying to portray the tour group of people that you’re working with that that man you’re not followed

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Speaker

ball, and you doubt make the state the people who don’t make mistakes are the people who don’t do anything and an important question. I would wanna ask any leader: is you know what what what have been the most important lessons? They learn from the biggest mistakes they’ve made and the ability to understand that

00:23:27

Speaker

to ensure that, and not just from a business standpoint, but from a human standpoint I mean they. The quality of our work is basically about the quality of our relationships with the people that we get a chance to be with every day that we get a chance to help. You don’t go after goals in and and try to accomplish big thing

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Speaker

things together, both individually and as teams and man. That only happens is we strive together and we struggled together at how good teams become great teams

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Speaker

of it. Apso love, especially the last part there, how good teams become crew teams cause, as when the goals here, the show is become from those great teams from those teams, the hits peak performance that means being great and being open with each other, transparent and humble movies. These think some fantastic. Yet the everything connected to that scott is the I

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Speaker

idea of when you say peak performance and that’s not really the challenge. The challenge is

00:24:28

Speaker

that dynasty kind of thinking I mean reaching a level at peak performance is good, but the real challenges sustain excellence,

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Speaker

have there’s a lot of coaches who might have won one championship for a number of teams that won the big one one time or you know eat you did something right in your life. The question is in what was so amazing about john wooden was the whole idea of sustained excellence, heated something I I can’t think of any other example,

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Speaker

certainly not in college basketball. Where coach took his team to the finals championship game

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Speaker

that game that ultimately has the most visibility, the most pressure, the most at stake. He did it ten times and he won all ten of those ten for ten in the biggest game, sustained excellence a dynasty year after year, excellence and that’s what he was really

00:25:26

Speaker

was really after he used a set. He he would hope that his best friends would all have a chance to win one championship, but I run play the people that maybe he wasn’t as crazy about. He would hope they win too, because it was a lot harder due to stay on top once you want it

00:25:46

Speaker

couple and thought you’d gotten pretty good at it than it was to keep it going year after year after year. You know there was a very popular business bloke writ many years ago, called good degree by a guy named jim collins problem of the best selling business books of all time. The company said he talked about and that today, huh

00:26:06

Speaker

hardly even are on the radar as good companies, because they could not create that sustained excellence that thirty or forty years later still has them at the top of their industry. That’s the challenge, and even for new companies, it isn’t just. How do we get there huh?

00:26:26

Speaker

How do we stare a great example, in my mind, is a chick fillet me actually worked with them.

00:26:33

Speaker

I have worked with them over a number years ago, and coach wouldn’t actually spoke to all their operators. All of the people that run their stores are in a conference in their challenge. That day. That was exactly why they wanted coach to talk to them. They were pretty good and getting better and do it while every year, but how hadn’t they get out

00:26:53

Speaker

that wall? How did they create that sustained excellence over time? While that’s speech was of some fifteen years ago and guess what they’re still on their role, there are better than they’ve ever been. They continue to attract good pupil, deliver state of the art customer service,

00:27:14

Speaker

provide fresh food and fresh perspective to building a great corporate culture.

00:27:21

Speaker

It’s a neat! Now I can’t disagree with yoga. I, where I would say, that’s probably my definition of peak performance includes your definition, sustain performances right. That’s what we’d pester goal is that you wanna grow up hit, hit hit the gold medal known, go gang a drug off raider is young organizations lost

00:27:40

Speaker

honor people’s jobs lost on her that so here’s the golden question: how is it that leaders are there? You can keep their team at that high level for long periods. Well, I think, thea. I think the team never exceeds the ability of the leader how, when it comes to setting all of those examples, a mob at me,

00:28:01

Speaker

mentoring and guiding and teaching from that day to day behavior, that’s needed to create sustained excellence

00:28:09

Speaker

in it’s always good is the is the set of values on which the company is founded. In the purpose for why that company exists

00:28:18

Speaker

ah and as long as those foundations and fundamentals are in place and and the company continues to focus on that drive for excellence at pursue perfection and know that it’s ultimately about people right, they’re, all gonna perform as well as their leaders and the quality of people they have and their quality,

00:28:38

Speaker

we have a culture that is sustaining that excellence. Then you get a chance to keep it going any of those things fail: the leadership, the culture, the quality, the process. Then things began to come apart. You gotta keep all of those things coming together and continually improving.

00:28:59

Speaker

The john wooden was way ahead of his time when it came the continuous improvement in quality principles. Ah I I lived in my business career through career tickly in the other automotive area. Through that whole process of t que, I total quality experience and what that means. We actually

00:29:19

Speaker

we started our work with there with coach wouldn’t working for toyota, who knew more about quality than practically anybody on the planet and taught many of american companies what quality it is all about. So chatwin was, it was a. I was a high cap in quality leader long before,

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Speaker

or anybody was talking about those qualities principles

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Speaker

it

00:29:45

Speaker

now loom. We we bid,

00:29:48

Speaker

went through one through three of the lessons and we had this nice nice, huge joke, beautiful surge coincide, the kanji conversation ah, but saint, don’t want to be cognizant of your time so quickly to dive into the last two losses. Just so, we can wrap this up in a nice package for the listener of there, because roughly one okay, guys over

00:30:08

Speaker

stuff, but was lessons, realize I’m forty five, so little for rodgers added the quality and here teaching. If, if you are, if you’re a great thinker, if you’re setting a good example, if you’re doing effective teaching with your people, you have set up the opportunity to be an effective leader and you’ve gotta plan

00:30:29

Speaker

edit core of competence and character from which real leadership can be provided, and you have an opportunity to be an effective leader, so he eat you move from. How do you think the example you said and how you teach to then? Taking that leadership role and being effective at it,

00:30:49

Speaker

and when you do that, you put yourself in a position to earn the opportunity to go two point: five, which is to be an effective mentor or you know, mentoring is about two things: it’s something you do, but it’s also something you are and something you need. Ah, and so looking for mentor is yours,

00:31:09

Speaker

self and being a mentor ultimately over time is part of that continuous cycle of that we’re talking about here because being a mentor, you’re gonna learn in that process having mentor’s, you’re gonna learn in that process. Ultimately, that’s gonna improve the quality of your thinking, which takes

00:31:29

Speaker

you’re back to the beginning of the process,

00:31:33

Speaker

love it. I love. I love his platforms, though bring you right back, because you need to be continuously reevaluating, I’m looking at your situation and making sure that you don’t always good.

00:31:51

Speaker

Oh, that did make sure that everything still is current, but it’s still clickable that it makes sense in the situation that you’re in so it’s deck, tennis loop to ensure and reevaluating revision, minor tweaks along the way and improve constantly loved house, wouldn’t spend his whole life

00:32:12

Speaker

being a mentor and being mentored by mean what we do. A lot of teaching of of kind to how coach wouldn’t got to be coach wouldn’t and who were the people that really influenced him and it started very early, went with there with quality parents are with set coaches. He was a student of the great thinkers and

00:32:32

Speaker

writers and teachers. He was a voracious reader, whether it was mother teresa, our abraham, lincoln or thomas edison, or winston churchill, dollar, great thinkers and leaders and writers and poets. A great student of the bible,

00:32:49

Speaker

john, would really did his homework when it came to mentor’s of his own. He had spiritual mentors, he had leadership mentor’s, he had personal mentors and he had coaches in the game of basketball and the game alive, who also served as his mentor. So you know it’s a great opportunity. We have

00:33:09

Speaker

have a tip coach and mentor it. It’s a privilege, it’s a responsibility. Ah, it starts with a parenting, have the toughest job we have is ultimately becoming great parents and look like outset, he tried to. He tried to be that kind of apparent, as he was the kind of

00:33:29

Speaker

coach and his team and his family were essentially all all all one thing, and you know he he liked to say that his his ultimate priorities was his family, his friends and his faith, and he hoped god would forgive him for that, but thought he might and thought he might understand how

00:33:50

Speaker

that worked in his life. He know john wooden was doing quality thinking right down to the final thoughts he literally had before he passed away

00:34:01

Speaker

his deathbed conversation with his pastor, who ask him what was on his heart on his final moments. Ask him if he wanted to hear and scripture from the bible and coach wooden was read the great commandment about love the lord, your god, with all your heart, all your soul. All your mind at all. Your

00:34:20

Speaker

spirit had love your neighbor as yourself and his pastor ask him how that worked and coach would. Instead, he was still working on it right down to his final moments and then his passport asked him pastor, asking which one was he working on right at that moment and john wooden. His final words were loving god,

00:34:41

Speaker

so a new a he knew what he was about. Any new is ultimate mentor was and what his priorities in life ultimately are, and he was thinking thinking exactly what he should have been thinking about heck that final moment of his earthly existence.

00:35:01

Speaker

It’s it’s pretty remarkable

00:35:04

Speaker

amazing amazing has been a absolute inspiring and interesting conversation or, firstly, crew of good things do come to an end. Ah, but before we wrap up, we’ve got a couple of questions, freeland, first being a coarseness all of us here at the peak performance leadership parkas,

00:35:21

Speaker

ms gordon, you linger what makes a great leader. Well, I think what makes a great leader is a great person.

00:35:30

Speaker

Oh great person and a great person comes out of who they are their character and their values. That’s what makes a great leader

00:35:38

Speaker

mama can’t give much more to the core than that and file thing is: how can people find you hook and they follow? You be part of your journey, it’s all about you and I know shameless plugs about it. Well, our book coaching way up is available about anywhere. You can buy a a book today, amazon and all all the main bookstores.

00:35:58

Speaker

Also an entrepreneur press dot com there that they’re the publishers. We have a a web site, a john jenner, wouldn’t course dot com is where you can find our tools and our materials andor, services, andor. There’s also a website coat your way up that come. Where do you get more information on

00:36:18

Speaker

the book as well? We are doing coaching and consulting on a regular basis. We’re helping people become certified. John, wouldn’t, coaches. You can check out our website. If that’s an opportunity, you might be a interested in

00:36:33

Speaker

awesome and, as always for you listener, it’s easy just go to moving for lucia dot com forward, slash one, eight zero one! Eighty and thank you again, my friend has been an honor. It’s been a pleasure and scrap enjoyed it very much. Thank you for your insights, prison.