The importance of hiring the right people can’t be emphasized enough. However, too many organizations out there, simply hire people to “fill the holes” without actually thinking through the problem that they are trying to solve. What capabilities are required for the organization to move forward in the right direction, as well as processes which require human input need to be determined. But most importantly, how will the person actually fit into the organization’s culture and dynamics.

Meet Jen

Jennifer has developed her expertise in Talent Strategy & Leadership Professional Development over her exciting 20+ year career as an HR Professional. She’s led international teams across Greater China, Mexico, the U.K., and the U.S. to expand into new markets, managing franchise retailers, and developing key strategic partnerships – all while exceeding business objectives and financial results. The rapid growth of her consulting firm 304 Coaching has been largely due to Jennifer’s unconventional approach to building innovative workforce development solutions for companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns. She is a sought-after business strategist, specializing in start-ups and large value-based organizations. She assists her clients in building talent strategies that complement their business strategies to ensure exponential growth.

Timestamped Overview

During this interview Jen and I discuss the following topics:

  • The current situation in the hiring domain
  • How to keep the people who are already in the organization
  • The best way to find and hire someone
  • The components of an effective hiring strategy
  • The importance of looking into failures during the interview process
  • How to effectively onboard new employees
  • How to deal with employees who are leaving the organization

Guest Resources

If you are interested in learning more about Jen’s resources be sure to check out the following links:

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The following is an AI generated transcript which should be used for reference purposes only. It has not been verified or edited to reflect what was actually said in the podcast episode. 


Ever live jan walk back to the show so great to have you here. It is so good to be back end like we were saying we could talk forever in edo, just keep going.00:00:15

SpeakerSo congratulations like the throw awards from time to time to my guess. You have won the award of the quickest return guest00:00:24


Speakerbooked after we hit stop on the last episode, which was only nineteen episodes ago. So, like you, have a fright, you’re refreshing the lesters mind out there for sure00:00:40

Speakerdad. While I’m excited to be back and continue, the conversation has- and there was going so well last time that we couldn’t go on forever. Now we couldn’t so lost and we were taught what reading change and forty listener of their food did not hear. Jan the first, I need to go back he to listen to episode, one sixty eight one sixty and you can hit that by going to moving00:01:00

Speakerfor leadership, dotcom four slash one six, eight leading real change. Ah, but today we’re gonna be talking about hiring people and hind right people and making sure we’re set up for success because you’re just talk about it before hit record, told you to pause. So, let’s play on the hun what you’re going to talk boat before so you know, what’s going on right now,00:01:20

Speakerthe whole hiring world massachusetts up what’s interesting right now and ito people are kind of starting to talk about it, maybe mid twenty twenty, knowing when we were going back to a more traditional work, schedule or traditional office that there are going to be some changes and that’s how00:01:40

Speakerterm that’s being kicked out there. A lot is the great resignation, and so what we’re finding is that many people over the last year and half have maybe decided hey. I wanna do something different with my life. I wanna have you know more time off or I want to have it blended schedule00:02:00

Speakeror my job changed, and it’s just not what I want anymore or others that group of people who are working for leaders who were leading through crisis management and kind of got stuck there and you know they’re just not being light in a way that feels good to them, and there is probably even ten more things I could list. But what we’re finding00:02:20

Speakerright now is that people are resigning from their job at a rate they’ve never done before, and this creates an incredible opportunity for organizations to hire new talent, but also a great opportunity for them to kind of crack the code on how they keep the talented they don’t want to lose.00:02:39

SpeakerOh that’s two different us through different ways to go right now. So let’s good the latter first and talk about keeping people because that’s gotta be near preferred, but we call in the army corps course of action, ideal option which is kind of like to make it sound normal tourist I confronted and stuff,00:02:56

Speakerbut yeah it’s option right. So that’s gotta be the preferred one because it takes so much time so much money so of hurtigruten hire people and reality is, you know the only person you have her nose, a known entity. You don’t know who you’re gonna get and enjoy after the end of the process. So what are some the best ways for organizations out there today00:03:17

Speakerto not lose your people with all this going on you? I do. I want changes, I don’t wanna have to come into the office on one bit more flexible works, good, oh whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, all these different things that the pandemic has really shaken up in route. You’ll make people think, but their wives in more holistic way. There is a lot. The good news is there’s a00:03:36

Speakerlot of options. That organization could take, and I think the first thing you wanna think about is taking care of your leaders because they’re taking care of your teams in there taking care of your business they’re, taking care of your reputation and self start their start at the top and really think about. How are you leading00:03:56

Speakerbeing your leaders? How do your leaders need to lead in the way in which your business is today it doesn’t matter what business you are. You are different today than you were a year and a half two years ago pandemic or not that’s life. Things change so think about what you need from these people. Think about the competencies skills, the way00:04:17

Speakerway of work here. What is important and really think about making sure that you’re asking them to do work, that’s purposeful and meaningful, and that you’re not asking them to do kind of that fluff work that doesn’t really have a business impact and so start there. You know what we’re finding here00:04:37

Speakerand at my agency is that people are investing in their leaders like they’ve never done before, and I think that’s fantastic, because it’s a first step in keeping them is investing and then then pass that really start to think about. How can you be incredibly efficient and purposeful with across the team, since oh really00:04:57

Speakerstarts with organizational design and stopping and saying what jobs are important? How are we gonna? Do those jobs and then ensure that you have the right people in those jobs because we’re doing things different, a person who excelled in a job today may need to be in a different job gazelle excel. Even more00:05:17

Speakersomeone who maybe struggled in a job two years ago may actually be a fantastic fit for today we don’t know they’re really taking the time and not assuming that everyone’s and the right job, but finding a way to think about what are what are we need to do and how do we best match that it’s almost kind of shake it up a little bit and get people matched really well,00:05:37

Speakerand I think those are some of the first steps that you can take to start to think about providing people with purpose and structure and a reason to come to work every day.00:05:48

SpeakerI love the first per year taking care of your the leaders within your organization, because it’s basically a litmus test of of an organization news or soon senior leaders, senior management, know rats from a sinking ship people, sashay girl, crushing home, like okay.00:06:07

SpeakerWhat’s going on, I don’t know here that I’m not privy to is all the senior leaders leaving. So if you take care of them, connery instills confidence in young male cortical, lower ranks or young their subordinates, but the same time it installs the coffins in those leaders to building okay grow00:06:28

Speakerand do their job growth and take care of their people. To do sales calls to do that marketing partner grown. In fact the changer know, get good good. The revenues brought in all those things that are needed to be done to help the organization run effectively. So those rules interesting point when I was unexpected, come up.00:06:48

SpeakerTry to keep you surprised new. You keep me on. My toes I looked awfully will give you that much march, I thought00:06:55

Speakersick part is. I liked vote young change and people, often shifting around and realizing that okayed the someone knew joe there who’s, not necessarily great worker in their job to day due to either a change in the records of the job may become a great worker or if you shift into another job, may you may strict the00:07:15

Speakerthe area of genius and as toilet us, what I like to refer to those you are we employing people in their areas of genius?00:07:23

SpeakerOh even myself. Personally recently I was not. I would just shift jobs and before that I was not in my era of genius on a show like I struggled personally with a did the best job a good day in day out, but it just was not the work that made me come alive where I you gotten one hundred per cent out of me now,00:07:43

Speakerwhere I’m at now is much more in those that way, or am I okay, I’m into that zone of what I’m working on now, I’m in charge of a bigger team, etc, etc, and it’s like okay. This is more of my air of genius, and sometimes this all takes at all takes cash, and you know putting someone in their area genius. Obviously it’s00:08:03

Speakerfantastic for the organization, but it it impacts that person at home at impacts that person out the community. It impacts our brain health that impacts their their physical health and their outlook on life and so ito as leaders. You know, or course, we’re thinking about the business of making sure the right00:08:24

Speakerpeople in you know taking care of those things, but when you take care of those things really wow those people create better communities and create better relationships around you, and so it’s this beautiful cycle of I took care of them. They are better. Therefore, they show at battersea there for a minute,00:08:44

Speakertake care of them even more as you can create a cycle where people are growing in your organization from mental health, physical health, emotional health, just by putting him in a job in which they feel good ads and they feel like they can succeed, is when you feel like you can succeed, you can do anything. You say you can succeed00:09:04

Speakereverywhere, but when you’ve lost your confidence and a key area of your life, you lose confidence everywhere,00:09:12

Speakerhan percent one hundred percent agree with you and I’ve seen it so many times with other people and searchers is not what’s what’s see what see where else we can employ such and such a person personal trauma door, but now, let’s, let’s go back host of a vaudeville box. We talk rihanna00:09:31

Speakerand people, young keeping people in organization. I would I guess, in the following thing, I would rob this up with is for elusive there. You just need to have a conversation with people. You don’t watch working for them. What’s not working for them. Listen to them if they say hey. This is not my area of genius to work that I’m doing right now is not something makes me come alive, her00:09:51

Speakerget the most salary than a psych row. Well, what would be real? How would you or within the scope of our new organization or team or whatever you have? These conversations only need a bit more flexible, the okay? How can we help you make a chief, a soda one? We don’t lose you and to you you, you stay happy healthy, employee.00:10:12

SpeakerLet’s go back to, but let’s go back to the other side of the coin. I eat empty position, someone young, they love people leave, it happens. We have him. Do we have an empty position? We need to hire someone else. Let’s go harlots go fast, find the first person we find and put them in the chair right. That’s the best way to do it right, fill the whole rat. Hella yeah, just just grab someone off00:10:32

Speakerthis story, I’m sure we can teach them had it’s it’s yeah, the not she says, don’t eat out nearly as bad. There do that,00:10:40

Speakerbut it’s either the beginning of the work is very similar and you have to first make sure you know what this job needs. You know not only understanding. You know, I need to hire someone to be a marketing director, but what how do you want them to do that job? You do a job description. It’s gone.00:11:00

SpeakerThose little fancy bullet points and nino. You do you check that box below we don’t always stop and think about is. Do we want someone? That’s innovative. So do we need? Are we gonna change cycle and we need innovation or do we feel like we’re in a solid place in? We need more traditional maintenance of this job,00:11:20

Speakerbecause if you hire super creative person who loves to shake things up, who loves innovation, but then you give them the play but tehran and they don’t get to deploy that innovation than yours. You you’ve hired the right skill. You have hired the right way of work and it has the same is true for someone who enjoys00:11:40

Speakerpragmatic, traditional work, and then you hire them to be your chief innovation officer and her like. But what do you mean a minute, innovate and think of things? I’ve never thought about. You know here’s what I’ve done and it’s always worked and there a place for both of those people, but you know what worked you want them to do and how do you want them to00:12:00

Speakerto do that? Work in that’s the pieces that we have to start with when we think about hiring00:12:08

Speakernora iowa. Oh a roofer, you know what parts of the vision of the position really. What is it? I also like the worker in terms of capabilities right war capability were trying to develop here or return you and come along ones. What you saw, the return of the obsolete, okay builders, really innovative! That’s gonna! Push the ball,00:12:28

Speakerput your push the envelope, exoteric solar, or do a reverb for capability that ers good ol, reliable gonna, give us their day in there right. So what type of capability do renew are often are like when we have empty rolls on michael kerr hill is the role even valid anymore00:12:48

Speakeryeah, that’s a great question and that’s you have to decide00:12:53

Speakerthey’re too often the role is, and always valid, and often times to what happens. Is we look at a team and we’re like they’re overwhelmed are all working a time and he’d everyone’s like oh, my gosh, and we throw payroll at the problem and instead of pausing and sang it, does this team need to capability development? Do we need to rework the work?00:13:12

SpeakerIs their partnerships that aren’t working, which is causing them to be backed up and overwhelmed, or do we just throw perrault the problem, and then we just keep hiring people in the situation. Doesn’t change and that’s a piece that we need a pause and ask ourselves about two before we just jump the gun and hire someone there money fixes everything come on.00:13:33

SpeakerHow many more covers up a multitude of sins of all the retail saying from back in the day, have great numbers and everyone ignores the rest.00:13:44

SpeakerSome companies have unfair to go from us air or think he had ever lived found later problems with lucifer another day of ethics. A lowly foot boa like of like were were were getting out so were talking about you know. Jurgen worker prefer your first off check and see. Friends were still valid.00:14:02

SpeakerWalker, renault factory or perform know. What is it that you’re looking for illegal for and visionary looking for, study know what is the vision for the job? So, okay, we’ve gone through this analysis. What yoko? Yes, the role still valid we’re looking for someone whose innovative, chris tarrant times are changing, and we need to give your we’ve. Obviously, foam behind the eight ball were behind the curve and00:14:22

Speakerwe needed caught up. So we know we’re gonna go there00:14:26

Speakerwhat’s next, where do we go next yeah? So what snack? So you know now, it’s the you put put a posting up in it’s crickets right, that’s usually kind of what happens, and it’s important to really think about your hiring strategy. Think where your ideal, client or your ideal am00:14:46

Speakercanada is living breathing where they ads and so so many times, people just throw everything on linkedin are everything on. Indeed,00:14:55

Speakerthat’s not always the best way to go to find someone really good at the job. You need to hire think about where they are, if you’re hiring that same marketing director as our example we been using this evening, where might they be go? Look for organizations that someone? That’s a really talented and marketing may be associated with00:15:16

Speakergo look for conferences and events and look at who their speakers were, who their attendees were like, go out there and actively think about where your ideal client might be and find them, but just throwing up that same old posting and hoping you get a candidate. You know00:15:35

Speakeroh ego, fish and every time everyone smile you’ll catch something, but if you get really strategic and think about where that person might meet be and go find them, that’s where you find the real talents because they may not be out looking at those postings, but they may definitely take a phone call from you. If you say hey, I noticed you were attendee in this marketing conference.00:15:56

SpeakerIt’s we’re looking for a marketing director, I’d love, to pick your mind about who you might know, or maybe you might be interested once you hear about it, but do the work to find where that person might be00:16:08

Speakerwhat’s a great post group of tips for sure?00:16:11

SpeakerOh no, you need to have some home form a stretch. Do some kind of idea of00:16:18

Speakerhow you gonna go vote? This processes aren’t is a person’s it’s. Ah, it’s it’s pure sniper through the zone. There is a process, but you can’t just take shots, move in the dark, throwing a line out in the water don’t like, so you might get the first oregano you might get the biggest fish in the pond where you make. It also gives the smallest one to just don’t know what you’re going to get.00:16:38

SpeakerI saw I really like you’re idea of going out there and being seen and in ruin. I would even suggest showcasing your business to even attract people to come in right, because that’s what you want is to become her hair know her, nor your proposal blah but papers. My rosary00:16:57

Speakerright is that, would that not be the end goal that you would want from this hiring strategy? Absolutely and you want the best of the best and if you think about going out and finding where that person may be active chances are they’re, pretty god, because they’re committed to their career, they’re out and associations are out and conferences. They00:17:17

Speakerare out there learning that industry from others and learning from others in developing themselves, and you know those are the people that you probably want to hire00:17:29

Speakerfor sure. So going fishing where the fish are00:17:35

Speakeris one component of fact of her storage. What are some other ones out there about, though you can hope the leaders listening with. So I think that we interview people completely wrong00:17:45

Speakerand we talk about behaviour based energy right. That’s what we’ve all been taught tell me about it time. You managed at a crisis right, and so that’s itoh, how we’ve all been taught to hire. And years ago I found came across a book and it’s called who you know like00:18:05

Speakerwho are you gonna hire who, by g h, smart and akash? It’s been fifteen years ago that I came across it and what I learned from that was how to find patterns in interviews, because the patterns of behavior help you figure out. If this person’s gonna be a feds, and I completely che00:18:26

Speakerby the way I interviewed you know early, my age are career. I was a full time recruiter and I eat out change it up completely and when I help clients today make hiring decisions, it is the way we do it and what you do is you start early in someone’s career, so the very first job you can find on there resume and you can sometimes you if you’re a high level executive, they save and go back to high school and college00:18:46

Speakeredge, and you could have asked the same questions. Where were you hired to do? What did you do because, as are sometimes two different things00:18:56

Speakerem, what did you? What are you proud ever? What did you? What is your biggest accomplishment?00:19:03

SpeakerWhat was your biggest failure? What did you learn from it and then what took you to your next job? You run that same series of questions and you know as they answer you can dig in and dial into like some details. But if you keep that format, what she will find as behaviors you’ll find that every single job they’ve ever00:19:23

Speakerhad they’ve been promoted at least once so you’re like hey this person comes and works hard. They get promoted at the other for, like the last four jobs they worked at hey. I need this person or you might find someone who every time you say will tell me what took you from that job to the next. Well, you know my boss, you know, wasn’t teach him anything and I just couldn’t lie00:19:43

Speakeranything more there, and that was the answer for last four jobs. Well, chances are they’re, not willing to learn, or they don’t see value and other people em. You start to see that when I had a failure, how did I approach that failure and what did I learn from entered? I take that knowledge to the next situation, and was my failure? Bigger or dufresne or you know,00:20:03

Speakerdid I you? Could you tell how that was a leverage and when you start to find those behaviors, that’s when you really start to recognize? How is someone gonna show up and do the job that you’re asking them to? Do?00:20:17

SpeakerI love it? I love it especially the failure part. I think. That’s, I think, that’s a question. We shy away from too much because it’s like room and hit vulnerable. I I messed up. I screwed up. I don’t talk like that, I’m to be boasting myself to an innovative look at me. Like oh great, I am not. I I I screwed up part I’ve grown apart. Let me tell you00:20:37

Speakerhear a time where I messed up oil yeah. It’s it back, grab a coffee.00:20:42

SpeakerIt can be really good.00:20:46

SpeakerYou might want to take some it’s because of of foot00:20:49

Speakeryeah. What what that does is one. It shows the vulnerability of the candidate that to me, but to it’s like that, fall on like okay. What did you learn? How did you learn from it right, ski congratulations,00:21:02

Speakerwe’re all human00:21:04

Speakerhumans make mistakes, and I told my people all the times and I don’t care. I don’t care if you make mistake what I care about is one not being blind sided by it. If I don’t need to be blindsided by went to is how do you make? What do you do differently so at this most likely won’t occur00:21:24

Speakeragain. You can never say won’t hooker again, but most likely will not occur again,00:21:29

Speakerbecause we just own future. We don’t know what’s gonna happen, so that is where I to me is like okay. This is where you can tell the difference of someone’s characters like did they take ownership of it? Did you learn from it? Are they changing your habits? Behaviours processes young their own little workings whatever, depending on what mistakes.00:21:49

SpeakerSo I think that’s something we need to talk more about not less about everything. It’s interesting about talking about failures, you’re, absolutely right. We should talk about it for obvious reasons, and when you talk about it with someone in the interview, the thing that I like to discover is that they struggle to think of a failure in a you might think.00:22:09

SpeakerOh well, they’re, so good, they never fell well, if you’re, not failing or you haven’t, stepped on something and gotten a little bit of trouble. You’re either focus so much on perfectionism that you can’t do don’t allow yourself to to mess up. You don’t allow that those things which means turn maybe not allowing yourself innovation,00:22:29

Speakerbecause if you’ve never failed, you’ve, never innovative urban innovative and they go hand in hand of I talked to someone in their liking it. My biggest failure was you know. We looked at the the information we research said and the marketing strategy we went with was acts. What we didn’t know. Third,00:22:49

Speakertwo days later, there was going to be this change in social views and we couldn’t have predicted that- and you know so, the marketing landed flat, how we pivoted, how we change that was this and this, but what I learned was have a plan b or leda whatever.00:23:10

SpeakerSo then you’re thinking, okay, this person’s okay with and asia, because they’re, okay with failure.00:23:16

SpeakerYou remind me of a part of our conversation from last episode. I brought up kodak and I brought it came back up again00:23:24

Speakerbecause of humor listen to jail for hazel. In there he was talking about how they were running, an ad campaign for rom for kodak and kodak ink, and there were doing in the movie theater nerd durga minute discounts, and it was. It was known before the movie started and they said: okay textual new one, two three, four, two00:23:44

Speakertwo border: whatever number and you’ll get your discount code in walk and the failure was was well. What do you do when you go into a movie theater? You turn your phone off now turn your phone off00:23:58

Speakerthat the sample, for whatever reason, the theater that they sample but work great, because I guess I figured those didn’t tell people turn their phones off, but when they launched it it was a huge failure and buddy you get all you had on it. How do you do differently so yeah and there had to be someone in that room that was like?00:24:17

SpeakerI don’t know about that. Enigma eggs is speaking up in the workplace.00:24:23

SpeakerThat’s exactly what we were talking alaska00:24:25

Speakerin the need for know having that snows, psychological safety, environment, psychological safety, where people can speak up and say by the way this is history,00:24:35

Speakeryeah run run, don’t do that00:24:38

Speakerwhich is actually goes back to to what we’re targeted say in hiring the right people, because you know I personally have one those stories that I even talk. But now, where you know I’ve, I tried to put my hand up retold, don’t put my hand up, and yet we we had the we had the kodak commercial moment in the movie theaters.00:24:58

SpeakerBut now I use us or is young I should I should have pushed harder. I should have said something I should have put my hand up regardless and said what a new say, because we would have averted that situation, and now I use that as a story in when we do that when people do that through the hiring process. Now you could see. Okay, don’t just dwell on their feet00:25:18

Speakerfailures, but rather like okay, they’re, making the place a better place. That story they are and it it reminds me of you know I tell people all the time I now get paid to do the things I used to get in trouble for I worked on a traditional corporate environment for years, and I have different views and they’re, not tradition.00:25:38

SpeakerOh and I got in trouble for him, but today, as a consultant, people pay me to come in with my untraditional. The unconditional views add edo, bring in ideas that they hadn’t heard before and to be a little wacky and it’ll be a little out there, and you know I think back if I, if that had been embraced earlier in my career,00:25:59

Speakerwho could who knows where I could have been, but I really eat out just felt, beat out for being deaf friends and take age and a little bit of confidence a little bit a circumstance for me to go. You know want me to skip. Let me just give me a try and see what happens and yeah and see I get paid to do the things I see in trouble. For00:26:18

Speakerso we’re talk with interview process and like upper west side rebel, but both too wonky bonus interview,00:26:25

Speakerwater, your best advice for people who were you on the not the envy would interview earlier in looking at candidates and they’re like okay, this candidate nails, everything knew all that the raspberries amazing all the checks in the box are great.00:26:45

SpeakerIt you just there’s something, there’s something: what is your best of us, because we’ve heard all these horror stories where someone shows up and they look amazing on paper, they nail the interview and the shop to get into into organization. It’s a disaster, and someone goes like lodged had this feeling, knowing your what’s your best advice for the for them out00:27:05

Speakerthere. I think one of the things that’s if you have that feeling is to spend more time with that candidate. We were trying to make hiring decisions quickly. We definitely don’t want to do death by interview casino. We can run off really good candidates if we have this insane process that find a project00:27:26

Speakeract that that person could do and then talk about it with them, because that sorts, I hope you see how their brain would work with yours and an example of that is one of my clients. We am a position that they hire for some time to dot time and this person isn’t am responsible for piano,00:27:46

Speakerals and they’re responsible for and is transportation organization. So we do the top great interview that we had talked about and if we feel good about their backgrounds, we give them kind of had made at piano and say, tell us what you see00:28:01

Speakerand then we get a couple scenarios and we asked them to write ass back and tell us how they’d handle a couple of things and what that gets us to. Is we get to start to think about how they think about the work, not just in theory but in actuality?00:28:18

SpeakerIt allows us to see their writing. Skills are communication skills, but the most important part about it is when we stop and talk with it to the person who would be managing that person talks to the canada about what they see in the piano and so that candidates starts to say. Well, you know this doesn’t make sense to me. You know tell me more about00:28:38

Speakerdad or you know, there’s two different ways I would go. How would you go and it can? It starts to build this conversation of how we might work together and is that a match, and I think that’s a great way to start. A kind of you know deal with those little butterflies in your stomach, like this person too good to be true,00:28:57

Speakergive them a project and sat down and have a great conversation with them about it, as if you were working together and then see what comes out of that00:29:06

Speakercause, great advice for sure for sugar in a tactical romer, it’s very hands on or their plan process, oriented planning, oriented stuff. I thought right because that that really can see it can see. It comes out really quickly because if someone doesn’t really know what they’re doing they’re going flustered frustrated very quickly00:29:26

Speakerand then we’re gonna be asking questions, are you know they shouldn’t be yeah and we’ve, given that same the exact same project’s, probably ten people over the last year, and we have gotten every kind of imaginable answer back and there was one cannot in particular that we were pretty high on and we thought this is the wine00:29:46

Speakeran end through that process? We were like no way, there’s no way. This could that this is not gonna work. He’s not gonna enjoy working for us. We’re not gonna. If he’s gonna fit for eg delicious wasn’t a fit on either side, and it could have been a really costly mistake for the organization, but also costly mistake on that. Canada, because it would have,00:30:06

Speakeryou know, put a bump in their reza may and that’s not fair to do to that candidate either you’re. You have to protect your company, but also have to protect the people and respect the people that you’re interviewing and not put them in a place of failure. That’s a great point in own and if they’re saying yes to you, that means they’re, saying no to someone else can00:30:27

Speakerrealized, there’s not a great fit00:30:31

Speakerthat then you’re taken them away from another opportunity. I I think there’s a lot of them00:30:38

Speakerof potential for respect. They’re like hey. We we think you’re a great person. We love you. We just don’t think you’re great fit for this role of another opportunity. Pops up feel free to apply, and then, if I was and am like yeah, I can respect that that yeah thanks for not put me in an innocent situation where I wouldn’t want to be.00:30:58

SpeakerIn short, every time someone changes jobs, they change the course of their life and the life of their family00:31:07

Speakeranswer. When we hire people, we have to be responsible to that, because that person is taking a chance on our company within their livelihood00:31:17

Speakerand I don’t think hiring managers pause and recognize when that power is00:31:23

Speakerah mike drop moment, victim janzen, the house helena00:31:29

Speakerso true art. So let’s get nuts boss through. So we we’ve review, we decide the position, we forgo the requirements. Commanded, the the capability we want to develop their division for it, we’ve gone through the interview we we found, the the butterfly person said thanks, but no thanks. You know you might maybe next time we found the right can00:31:49

Speakerthat job letter of offer. We both sign it in jobs on right. That’s it00:31:54

Speakerrelativism when lobbied great. If that was it, you just like pick them up, unlike plugged them into their possession, and they knew everything in it was all fine00:32:02

Speakerat any rate.00:32:04

SpeakerFortunately, some people think that way. I know, I wonder why it doesn’t work out yeah, so on boarding is obviously incredibly important ends edo. I look at on boarding, probably a little different to you and how I look at on boarding is really thinking about prioritizing the work he want this person to do so if you’ve got ten00:32:24

Speakerthanks for this person to do their job, find the three most important things, not the easiest stuff to teach. The three most important things is person’s gonna be responsible for teach them that first, let them get some wins. Let them get some confidence, then you add on additional responsibilities and then00:32:44

Speakeradditional until they can handle the full job. The reason why you start with what’s most important is that tells them unconsciously at the end of the day, this is the most important part of my job. It’s what I learned. First, it’s where I had my early wins. It’s how I built my confidence at a time and a show up every day and I’m gonna be able to prioritize in a different way unless it’s00:33:04

Speakersaid, if you just saying here’s a birthday of ten things have at it and edo when we start to build confidence in our employees early on, we open up their ability to use our frontal lobes, and so they can learn faster. But unfortunately, too often we just dump on people and wages00:33:24

Speakerhannah bunch of stuff and then they struggle and they get in trouble. And then they don’t have confidence. And then it starts to spiral from there and not a good way, not spiralling in a good way by any means. But you have to set people up where they immediately know their priorities and they immediately get some wins00:33:42

Speakerlove. I love that loss per your home, you get some wins doom put their coffins good, though conference on her own you’re right. That was not world’s expecting minutes ago00:33:54

Speakerby I love it had seen in the same breath, because your build up her smoke, because this short beginner jobs or nervous little boo, new people, new building, maybe maybe new login, who knows,00:34:08

Speakerand it just new work, new flown all the stuff from new dynamics, alderson slick getting into the groove giving into the routine and get some wins on order both or some pats on the backside. Good job thanks particular allow for us. Sorry know the next one up is such a such a file and just having anna, but that is beyond that’s great00:34:27

Speakerbecause it makes them feel valued and they’re part of the team already they’re contributing around his thick so long and in that process help them find their best partners,00:34:38

Speakerand so, when you’re in a new job, often times are like. Am I supposed to be working with? And where do they work and what’s their extension and who is sad- and I don’t even know- and so part of the on boarding- is teaching people who are your most important business partners, and so here’s the first three task. I want you to learn and hear the three people that you need to talk to and00:34:58

Speakertalk about your relationship with how you’ll work with them to get that task completed ads, encouraging you know your current employees to really take those new people under their wings so that it becomes a culture of we succeed together. But part of the on boarding plan has to be here. Are the people you work with anne00:35:19

Speakerin in here? Is your time to learn how to work with them,00:35:23

Speakernot of other absolutely love it, and especially the loss, hurt known here’s how to work with them cause am something them00:35:32

Speakerbridgestone really know. Nor do we get taught it. Nor do we talk about the marches, the working with these different and working with you in the fray. How I receive information and process of russians differently than how you do it as a leader? Is a boss or supervisor my boss supervisor?00:35:52

SpeakerI find it important that I, when I show up so, for example, my current rule of four direct reports on the team of twenty four people were unknown, as so, my directors like hey. This is how I like to receive yeah my information00:36:12

Speakeror whatever. Here are things that I avoid known to do, or this is how I like to operate. But at the same token I need to know how that works for you, so that one informations on your direction. I can make sure that you understand it, because I’m giving it to you in the way that you need to absolutely in00:36:32

Speakeryeah when you go back to thinking about how to get people early, when’s, knowing who to work with and how to work with them that I’ll get them early wins is how many people on their first. You know couple months set at a desk and think I don’t know who to even call for help, and I’m just gonna do my best and you have to remove00:36:52

Speakerthat noise in someone’s head so that they can spend their energy exhaling get. So much energy, everyday, so hot, it’s a currency if they’re spinning their currency, that energy on trying to figure out who to work with to solve the job they need to do then they’re, not getting it done00:37:10

Speakerand ito take away those obstacles. So all other energy is spent actually getting. The wins,00:37:18

Speakerwhich would I would even suggest, would be a massive drain on a creative person or persons produce put in a role for neither, though, that energy that currencies and called it for that actual type of work, because it takes a lot as it is right. It takes a lot of work to a water curtain, your energy00:37:38

Speakerin time and brainpower to be creative00:37:42

Speakeror knows it does for me, because I’m not necessarily most creative person out there, her son, anything about double work. You think about someone goes down a path and I think it’s the right path, but they don’t know the right person to partner with and now that person, maybe mad has a new person didn’t include them in a conversation, and now that works wrong and our now I’ve got noise again right. You guys00:38:02

Speakeris noise and that person feels like they fell that now they have a bad relationship with a business partner and it could have been prevented in it’s actually not hard. It’s not hard at all, but it’s slowing down to do the right things for the right reasons, to create wealth and success of people can build their confidence that they can bring their best selves to the00:38:22

Speakerthe job and deliver what you expect them to deliver. Beautiful song of songs are pretty quick.00:38:28

SpeakerBasically, when you good people in absolute teach them what they need to do, but actually prioritize the only top three toss that you want him to achieve roadway suited to get those quick wins but, most importantly, make sure they are linked with the key people out there that need to interact with in order to get those quick wins in and make sure that we have understood.00:38:48

SpeakerOwning of you know. Iran has understanding how to to send and receive information. So you don’t want a green occasional, nice and clear and open a christian life goes good. It’s rights are suitors. One thing I wanna hit before we win the show jan and we we’ve gone through the whole hiring process through from you, don’t think about the position of two on00:39:09

Speakerboarding and that is yo and move the day we all leave. So I love to get your. Are your thoughts and ideas on how do we take care of people who leaving know some walks in and switched or fourteen day notice or whatever the resignation and stuff you do to really get what the helm throw back at them. In a again00:39:29

Speakeryou get the hell out in your pickup pack up your things now or we sit here and cry and say no, please go go reboot reboot. Do you address? How do we take care of the that situation?00:39:42

SpeakerThe first thing we have to do is stop and pause and find out. Why?00:39:48

SpeakerAnd too often we take it so personal that we can hear the? Why and that’s what we’ve got and now we’ve got another. Why? Because if it’s a y you can control, and you can course correct. If someone you need to keep, maybe that’s an option.00:40:03

SpeakerIf there’s a y- and you can’t say that person, but you discover something about your organization and you’re like oh and you know where there’s smoke, there’s fire and you know, stop and really get curious without ego00:40:18

Speakerand that’s really hard. But we can do it00:40:22

Speakerbecause if you remove your ego from it- and you really listen to that person’s- why you will have a much more intimate more respect for them more empathy for them of those people that we treat poorly on the way out. Ea, don’t think they don’t know people they. Don’t they don’t think someone’s gonna apply for a job that you really want to hire but went to college with that purse00:40:43

Speakerreally horrible to they’re gonna call and be like he was like to work there. Should I apply they’re going to remember that last period, they’re not remember all the years leading up to that, and so it’s good. It’s good strategy to treat people. Well, it’s the right thing to do,00:40:59

Speakerand it’s an incredibly important piece to maintaining your retention in the future by really finding out the y in respecting that person’s. Why? I will talk to people who, like yeah, they gave notice and they think that they they can go off and do this and there’s no way they can do it. While you don’t know that he’d, oh, I applaud them for00:41:19

Speakeror you know, having the confidence to try something new these, while you’re walking around the office talking bad about that person who laughed every single person you said, something’s gonna be like off. They probably think that about me too, and again you’re reducing our safety in the workplace and soon to be really careful about how you treat those people that use it as a moment to00:41:40

Speakerget curious, find out the. Why be respectful of the? Why? If there’s anything in that, why that you can change change it00:41:47

Speakerof of of a vote know if there’s anything that you you can control and change treasure ozarks! You have this exact conversation with a member over facebook or blue of girls. Rogers three readers, not bosses, every ah member from listener. Another easy just good moving for worship, doc, home for sauce group and joined the over three00:42:07

Speakerthousand and probably about four thousand by the time. This goes live members who are having conversations in their daily and we’re. Having this conversation were,00:42:16

Speakera leader was having issues with the thirteen, and I I asked you asked a handful questions and she mentioned that yeah. Also, there were people who will leaving said okay, so have you asked why that there are leaving some said they were going for more money, which is not uncommon. Someone always on pay more for it. Now you can control the moon.00:42:36

SpeakerMost people who know everyone listen to the podcast has control over payroll. So if you don’t have control, payroll can control, but the other aspect was so some people didn’t like who they’re working with mike bingo.00:42:51

SpeakerThat’s where you focus in on. Why is it they don’t like it now? Are there some people in there that are causing issues for the new people are showing up there, causing issues with the rest of the teammates? Obviously, there’s something there too, as you said, there’s loads of smoke and where there’s smoke there’s flames right. So that’s where I suggested00:43:11

Speakerthis member to ah your focus, her attention on and go after, because if there’s one or two people who are causing issues for you know the other twenty, you don’t want that he you need to give you need to get afterlife and and sort it out in front at what their issue is. Why are they causing problems right? Those in ohio? Oh sorry, people who00:43:31

Speakerleft or more money might have only be leaving for more money me they didn’t like their boss, so they were looking for a job and guess what someone offered him more money, but if they love that supervisor it may not have been out there. Looking and propagate have been offered more money, so chances are the more money that was related to that. To not great point three point,00:43:52

Speakerthe the other point want to make was used it. I quote, no respect people as they go out and stuff like this.00:43:59

SpeakerYou you always want a friend in court right and and, like I said, people talk when you get outside of work. So, like hey hell, no, you don’t go work for mccarthy. Think that guy’s crazy, like he treats you like garbage you’re gonna, go over three or four yo cause. Gen is phenomenal right,00:44:19

Speakerbut if bill, if, if my former employees working for you and then suddenly something pops up on neurons like we need a partner, someone would yell we need. We need partners with someone to to handle this and we’re gonna ideas were suggestions, and if I wasn’t, if I was young, super00:44:38

Speakersort of a respectful, etc, etc, etc. More likely, my former employers go yeah jaeger, mccarthy, yeah great great guy owed. You guys have similar lanes, etc. There are some overlaps in some non overlap. Since the visit you might complement each other very well, they continue celebrating choice of I still talk to00:44:59


Speakerand boom. Now business is booming and we’re helping each other00:45:04

Speakeryeah. It is interesting. You know people have to change jobs for so many reasons and ito and when you build that we’ve treated them while and they have to leave or whatever and you stay in contact with them and you stay in communication with them. You know who knows what will happen down the road you meet. You bill00:45:24

Speakerbusiness with them, they may come back, they may refer someone. You may refer someone to than admit that those relationships only kind of out builds said all this time. Maybe years building relations, someone an overnight, you stomp it out for no reason like duchess, you know people are gonna. Remember it00:45:44

Speakerawesome! Jan. I could talk to you for hours. We have so much fun together, redo. We have so much fun,00:45:50

Speakerbut for toronto on this one down, our redo got lots a great great comments going on social feeds with the live video. So for lesser again, if you’re not follow me on social, you need to because this is actually being live stream months before the podcast is even being released. So you get a head, you get a you, get access to yogurt these great enough00:46:11

Speakeruse ahead of time, such as the one with gentlemen,00:46:14

Speakerbut gym before wrap up gonna the show over the last time, so we’re gonna review answers first question: before we wrap up canoe gentlemen, what makes a great leader00:46:26

Speakera great leader is someone here: can reduce the fear in the workplace, not allow someone to be a wholly and completely who they are00:46:38

Speakeramazing. Absolutely amazing, I think very fitting for this day and age right now with absolutely blew all the changes going on in the social dynamics of the roller down. So fantastic and the final question of the show were, can be fine you. How can they follow you shameless plugs have at it,00:46:55

Speakerso you can connect with me on linkedin am at gen thornton ac, see you can also connect with us on our website at three o four coaching dot com, where we have a ton of resources that you can download and enjoy and find podcast like this one00:47:11

Speakerraising and four losers. Always it is easy for you go to moving for lucia dot com forward, slash one eight, seven one. Eighty seven links on the show notes. Gen. Thank you. I appreciate you appreciate the time and end this friendship that we have grown on. It’s fantastic. Yes, I appreciate you and I hope you and all your food00:47:31

Speakeralors have a fantastic evening.