In the fast-paced world of business, effective leadership is the cornerstone of driving organizational success. On Episode 242 of the Peak Performance Leadership podcast, host Scott McCarthy invites CEO and coach Patrick Thean to delve into the intricacies of accelerating team growth and fostering a culture of open problem-solving. Throughout the episode, Patrick Thean shares invaluable insights gained from his extensive experience in leadership and offers a systematic approach to maximizing team productivity and achieving sustainable growth.

Meet Patrick

Patrick Thean is a thought leader in strategic business execution and a successful serial entrepreneur who has started and exited multiple companies. As Founder and CEO of Metasys, Inc., he grew Metasys to a ranking of 151 on the Inc. 500 list. He is best known for helping companies accelerate their growth by focusing on great execution. He is exceptional at getting executive teams and their departments focused, aligned, accountable, and executing as a team to achieve their company objectives. His clients experience breakthroughs using this approach and tools that result in drama-free, accelerated growth. These tools are also part of the curriculum for the Entrepreneur Organization’s world-renowned Entrepreneurs Master’s Program held at MIT, where Patrick served as Program Cochair for seven years. He also chairs a similar program in Malaysia: “Taipan: The Making of Asian Giants.” Currently a Cofounder and CEO of Rhythm Systems (formerly Gazelles Systems), Patrick is the creator of Rhythm Software. Patrick received his Masters of Engineering and Bachelors of Science in electrical engineering from Cornell University. He was named an Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year for North Carolina in 1996.

Timestamped Overview

00:00 Patrick Dean, author, CEO, coach helps leaders grow.

06:42 Team huddle sets focus for grateful, productive week.

09:33 Maximizing use of expensive executive meeting time.

12:10 Well-prepared individuals feel secure when challenged.

14:09 Reflect on achievements, plan and calendar ahead.

17:37 Depend on me, but it’s ego speaking.

23:15 Balancing invitation to difficulty and accountability.

26:58 Consistent effort leads to long-term growth.

28:48 Identify errors, listen, and avoid blame game.

30:56 Company growth requires start, stop, keep evaluation.

37:02 Question relevance, adapt to changing life circumstances.

37:39 Embrace the power of “and” in leadership.

41:52 Execs needs courage, curiosity, and coaching leadership.

Guest Resources

If you are interested in learning more about Patrick’s resources be sure to check out the following links:

Related Articles and Podcasts

Join Our Elite Mastermind Community

Join Scott and our dynamic Mastermind Community! 🚀


Unlock the power of growth-focused leadership with a group of like-minded individuals who are passionate about taking their leadership skills to the next level. 🌟


Ready to transform your leadership journey? Click here for more information! 👉📈

Leave an iTunes Review

Get a FREE membership!

If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a review on your favorite podcast appIf your review is chosen as the Review-of-the Week, we’ll get a free month to the Leader Growth Mastermind!

What do: Write a review, send an email to with a screen capture of the review, and wait to hear it read out on the show! 

Thanks for the amazing support!  


Write your review or rating here:

Unlock Your Peak Leadership Potential with Personalized 1-to-1 Coaching

Elevate your leadership to its highest potential with personalized 1-to-1 coaching from Scott. Discover the path to peak performance and achieve unparalleled success in your leadership journey. Ready to unlock your leadership’s full potential?

Subscribe to the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast

Join thousands of leaders worldwide who are transforming their leadership skills with the Peak Performance Leadership podcast. Unleash your full potential and stay at the forefront of leadership trends. Subscribe now and embark on your leadership journey of excellence!

Follow us on Your Favorite Social Media

Share now!


The following is an AI generated transcript which should be used for reference purposes only. It has not been verified or edited to reflect what was actually said in the podcast episode. 


Scott McCarthy [00:00:00]:

Episode 242 of the Peak Performance Leadership podcast. We speak to coach and CEO Patrick Thien, and he’s gonna tell you how you can accelerate your team’s growth. How about growing your team today, folks?


Scott McCarthy [00:00:14]:

Are you ready for this? Alright. Let’s do it. Welcome 1. Welcome all to the peak performance leadership podcast. A weekly podcast series dedicated to helping you hit peak performance across the 3 domains of leadership. Those being leading yourself, leading your team, and leading your organization. This podcast couples my 20 years of military experience as a senior Canadian army officer with world class guests bringing you the most complete ex podcast on leadership going. And for more, feel free to check out our website at moving forward


Scott McCarthy [00:01:01]:

With that. Let’s get to the show.


Scott McCarthy [00:01:10]:

Yes. Welcome 1. Welcome all. It is your chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy, and thanks for coming out to the show.


Scott McCarthy [00:01:18]:

Ex so good to have you here. It’s so


Scott McCarthy [00:01:20]:

great, you know, to get behind the mic and just talk about something I’m passionate about every day, and that’s leadership and inspiring others and leading others. And I’m recording this intro to the show right after one of our mastermind group calls, and I’m just pumped. It just gets me going. And you know what? I just love doing this work. It brings me alive, and thanks for coming and listening. Anyway, and I hear the listen to me get all gooey and mushy with you. You’re here because you wanna learn how to accelerate your team’s growth. Ex that’s exactly what we’re talking about today.


Scott McCarthy [00:02:02]:

Today, we got Patrick Dean, and he is a author. He’s got his own book referred to as Rhythm, how to accelerate breakthrough execution and accelerate growth. And I will tell you it is a great read. So you can go and grab yourself a copy, and it would not be money wasted. He’s the CEO of his own company, and he is a coach. And he is all about helping you leaders of teams to essentially get them to break through those plateaus that they’re having and achieve great execution and accelerate your growth in order to achieve new heights. And that’s what we’re talking about today. In fact, what we actually talk about actually talk about how strong Mondays set him up for success.


Scott McCarthy [00:02:54]:

And and we actually record this podcast episode on a Monday morning, so it was quite interesting. And then we talk about how we can set our team up to achieve peak performance and how to prepare yourself for the upcoming week and how we establish a culture of the gift spread and then how to establish a stop doing list. And these are all interesting things that actually help you grow and not go backwards. And it’s very interesting. You know, we’re in a society where more is better. Next thing, you know, do more with less, constant, constant, constant. And we actually talk about doing less. And that’s it.


Scott McCarthy [00:03:40]:

Doing less. So that’s today’s show. Sort of ready for it, ladies and gentlemen? Sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Patrick Dean all about how to accelerate your team’s growth.


Scott McCarthy [00:04:09]:

Patrick, sir, welcome to the show. So good to have you here today.


Patrick Thean [00:04:14]:

Scott, good morning. Thank you.


Scott McCarthy [00:04:16]:

So it’s early Monday morning. I’m technically on my day off from work, but, of course, I’m work this is my side hustle, so I’m working this. Ex you. You’re just saying your Mondays are strong. So let let’s, let’s let’s let me pick at that for a second. When you say your Mondays are strong. What do you mean by that?


Patrick Thean [00:04:36]:

Sure. So on Mondays, I take the opportunity to meet with my team and they just kinda get everyone going off on a good rhythm. I believe that if you hit Monday well and you get everyone kind of highly energetic and focus on the week, Then the rest of the week would be like rolling the rock downhill. But if you kinda get a slow start, then you’re gonna be salmon swimming upstream. So I’d much rather roll the rock downhill than swa salmon swimming upstream.


Scott McCarthy [00:05:06]:

So let let let’s dive accept tactically into this now. So that that’s the overall strategy there. You know, strong Monday, I really like the concept, setting the team up for success, like pushing a rock downhill advice uphill for sure. So how do you actually go about doing that, getting everyone on the same page? What does that look like is that, you know, face to face meeting. Are you guys going through calendar events or you’re setting priorities


Patrick Thean [00:05:26]:

for We have we have meeting. Now we call this a weekly adjustment meeting because most most people have a weekly meeting that is status oriented, and I I feel like status meetings are, one boring, 2 very expensive. Because you got your executive team in a room, that’s an expensive meeting. So I don’t wanna waste my time on Providing status. So we call this a weekly adjustment meeting. Everyone provides their status ahead of time. Everyone then provides a very short we can sync up note on what the week is gonna be about. Everyone thinks hard about what their, top few priorities for the week are.


Patrick Thean [00:06:02]:

Now we jump into our weekly adjustment meeting. That’s what my executive team basically at about 9:30. So between 9 o’clock and 9:30, I go through some preparation for that, so I’m prepared for that. I feel like it’s my job to make sure that the executive team ex It’s a very powerful weekly adjustment meeting to kinda kick off the week. So in that meeting, we will process, the key priorities that we have for the quarter. And, we went we’ve had pre status it and we’ve read each other’s, insights on it so we can dive right into Solving any problems, anything that’s red or yellow, we’ll tackle. It will do that till about 11 o’clock. The team has a short break, and then at about 11 x 30.


Patrick Thean [00:06:42]:

The whole company gets on a a team a team huddle for the weekend. We kinda go around the room and and we have different agendas. But right now, the agenda is To share something that you’re thankful about and then to share your number one thing for the whole week. So that just gets everyone kind of focus, grateful, and ready to hit the week. That’s my morning routine. And then in the afternoon, I, I meet with my, couple of my executives and We have 1 on ones and anything you can do to kinda get them strong. So right now, that time right after lunch goes to my, my head of products. And then we have a couple of again, depending on what projects have going on, I typically have a couple of project marketing meetings on Monday.


Patrick Thean [00:07:25]:

So everything I can to to line up People that work with me, on Mondays is what I try and do on my Mondays. So my philosophy is if I take Monday and get everyone aligned and everyone ex Kinda collaborating well together, then I really don’t have to worry about how everyone’s doing their work for the rest of the week because if all discussed what we’re most focused on with, gain clarity. You know, Stephen Covey talks about keeping the end in mind, and I believe in Not just sorry. He says, beginning and end in mind. I I believe in beginning and keeping the end in mind. So every Monday, We kinda keep the end in mind for our goals for the quarter. And that’s that’s the rim that we use, and that’s the rim that we teach our customers how to do as well.


Scott McCarthy [00:08:12]:

That’s I I I really like that whole concept. I really like the idea there of putting your status, like, emailing in or or messaging it ahead of time because you’re right. It’s super expensive. And at work, I I do the same thing. We sit in ex provide status updates. You know, like, there’s about 13 of us around the table. And, like, it it’s it’s a lot of money tied up for that couple to status reports. But I really like what you do.


Scott McCarthy [00:08:37]:

So you basically, you know, message the status ahead of time, and anybody can read it. And then, you know, and then you focus on you know, take that meeting and focus it into something really you know, what’s gonna move the yard sticks. Statuses don’t you move the yard sticks. It’s what you said. It’s the adjustments that make make the yard sticks move. So


Patrick Thean [00:08:57]:



Scott McCarthy [00:08:57]:

I really like that. I was actually as you were discussing it, I was kinda reflecting on how I might, incorporate that idea, that concept more so into my team and our weekly updates that I have, that I run so that I can get the best bang for the buck out of my crew, and they’re not wasting their time per se. Because to me, I hate ex having my time wasted, but I even hate more wasting other people’s time and and just simply, hey, this is what we got going on. This is what we’ve been doing. To me is it’s kinda you know, it it’s important, but at the same time, it’s also a waste of time if you and I’m sure you understand what I mean by that.


Patrick Thean [00:09:33]:

Yeah. I think most of us, don’t realize this. I think the other way to look at it and stuff wasting time is that I I could think of it also as a very expensive meeting because you’ve got your executive team there. So that’s really a very expensive meeting and you have a choice of how you choose to use that time. But when you start thinking of it as as a very expensive meeting, how would you like to deploy that investment? I think my for me, anyway, my brain kinda kicks into a different place versus feeling like I’m I’m I’m wasting time. Because there’s so many things I know I’m wasting time on that I kinda kick myself later and go, Patrick, I can’t believe he did that. It was a waste of time. But somehow the idea that, I’m about to deploy, you know, a slice of, You know, all these expensive salaries for an hour every single week.


Patrick Thean [00:10:20]:

That’s a pretty big investment. So, I think lots of times we forget about the investments that ex me that were made ahead of time like payroll. You don’t have to worry about writing payroll checks anymore because that’s automatically done for you. And I think that Unfortunately, the good part of or the bad part of automation, unfortunately, is they don’t see it. Right? So if you don’t see it, you don’t have the pain anymore. But imagine if you were writing a paycheck every month or every week, you’d feel the pain of that paycheck. You’d feel like, oh, I’m paying so and so this much money. He or she do the right thing, this week.


Patrick Thean [00:10:54]:

And then, you know, your your podcast is about peak performance. So I think that it’s my job as ex as the head of this company to make sure that everyone, achieves their peak performance. So for me, I believe that first, I gotta set the environment right because that’s the only thing I can do, really. I can set the environment right. And as a leader, the biggest weapon I have is actually the words I’ve said. So how do I use my words to have everyone, you know, find this environment, a grateful one, a joyful one, and a place that they can be inspired to be at their peak performance. So that’s that’s what my Monday is about. My Monday is about trying to trying to get everyone into that that space where they’re gonna have a great week.


Patrick Thean [00:11:40]:

By the way, the only way to have a great year is to have 4 great quarters. The only way to have a great quarter is to 13 great weeks. So, You know, my book talks about having this weekly adjustment meeting. It talks about getting yourself ready for it. We call that a meeting with yourself. Your meeting with yourself. And so you kinda meet with yourself, reflect on the week, think about what you’re gonna be doing this coming week. If you prepare yourself well, There’s a good chance you will then collaborate well with your friends.


Patrick Thean [00:12:10]:

If you don’t prepare yourself well, you probably will come in a little guilty, ex a little apprehensive and a little defensive. When somebody asks you a question that you don’t quite know the answer to, I’ve noticed that there’s a difference. If I’ve prepared myself, somebody asks me a question that I don’t know the answer to, I’m pretty okay. Right? Hey, Scott, I’m sorry. I don’t really answer that question. Let me go think about it a little bit because I prepared myself. But, you know, I haven’t prepared myself and somebody asks me a question that’s challenging, I might feel defensive. I might feel like, why are you asking me that? Are you picking on me? Did I not do a good enough job for you? And really it’s because you’re not ready, So you got your armor up.


Patrick Thean [00:12:52]:

But if you’re ready, you can kinda chill a little bit in order you’ve done everything you can do. And if you don’t already answer, then it’s really better for the team to just share that. I you know what? I don’t know the answer. Maybe somebody else does, but you won’t feel the defensiveness, in my experience anyway, if you are well


Scott McCarthy [00:13:09]:

No. I really like that. I I really enjoy the last bit there talking about, whether or not if you know the answer and how well prepared you are. You know, the the thing is I’ve always said people ask me questions that I don’t know the answer to. I’m like, great. That’s a great question. I actually don’t know the answer to it, But let me get back to you. Or, you know, this and just like you said, anyone in the room have any insights? Because, you know, I’m I’m a smart cat.


Scott McCarthy [00:13:33]:

I like to think, but at the same ex I know I’m smart because I realized I don’t know everything. In fact, I believe I know nothing. Therefore, I keep looking for more. Ex So, I’ve I that’s kinda how I I kind of do it. You you mentioned about preparing yourself for the upcoming weekend. I thought that was great in prepare for your your upcoming week meeting. So how do you actually go about doing that? You know? What what does that look like for you? And what advice do you have the leaders out there who are, like, literally today preparing their Monday morning. Yeah, as we do this interview, you know, what’s your best advice for them to go through this process?


Patrick Thean [00:14:09]:

So I like to do that either on a Friday or a Saturday. And, because at the end of the week, it’s express your brain for you to look back and say, how did I do this week? So my meaning to self process starts with first, ex Reflecting on what you achieved this week. You look at your priorities that you set. Did you or did you not get what you do what you wanted to do? And and, If you did it, then what’d you learn from that? If you didn’t achieve it, then what do you have to keep in mind for next week and also why can you learn from that? So that’s the 1st step. The 2nd step is I I then look at my calendar for next week. I look at my goals for the quarter and I decide What I’m gonna do the following week, and I calendar it into my calendar. So I believe you gotta live your calendar. So, You know, sometimes people think, oh, I’m gonna do this, this, and the other.


Patrick Thean [00:15:01]:

But the calendar, they have space to do this, this, and the other. So if the calendar did not have the space to do that work, they’ve already kind of failed before they even started the week. So you wanna make sure that your calendar has the space to do the work that you wanna do. Then we use our own software rhythm. So we go into rhythm and then I provide a red, yellow, or green status on the KPIs and the ex that I have. We then do the week in sync notes, which we write down. Okay. Based on that, what what is my top priorities for for the following week? Now in my case, being the guy that owns the weekly adjustment meeting for my executive team, I come back on, during the weekend or I may get it done that Friday also Where I I put down the agenda for this meeting.


Patrick Thean [00:15:46]:

Everyone can then see the agenda for this meeting. I usually pick 1 or 2 special topics we’re gonna discuss based on reading my team’s, status and priorities, ex And what’s the theme for the quarter? I tend to pick 1 or 2 discussions that we’re gonna have what I call a spicy discussion. Something that is, one of those discussions that you gotta have. If you have it, it’ll help you grease the skids and you’ll have a better quarter. And those are the difficult ones. Those are the discussions that a lot of people move rather just kinda leave alone for another week. Well, if you leave alone for another week, That’s 1 last week you have to solve that problem. So that’s kind of my process of of getting ready.


Patrick Thean [00:16:29]:

Then on on Monday morning before the meeting starts, I’ll jump in again, and I’ll kinda read, everyone’s weekend sync notes so that I can and I encourage my whole team to do that. So we’ve actually read each other’s statuses. If you haven’t read your team statuses, you can’t do what I’m about to suggest. Right? Because you’d come in wanting to know the status, But we’ve now read everyone’s status. We’ve read each other’s. We can take notes. And when we come together, we can just highly engage on the most important things. Ex One one last note I’ll say is that I have this concept I call the gift of red.


Patrick Thean [00:17:03]:

So when you’ve status something red, that means it’s in trouble. And I encourage people that have something that it’s about to be in trouble to status it red because the earlier you provide a red status the more time the team has to figure out as a team how to get past that. So We’re all human, you know, so none of us like to status something red. None of us like to say, hey. I’m in trouble over here. We would much rather think that while that’s a little bit in danger, I can pull it out, man. I can get it done. It’s gonna be fine.


Patrick Thean [00:17:37]:

You can depend on me, But that’s really the ego speaking. I think that for the good of the team, I’m much for other people say, hey. What? You know what? This project, I think I can pull it up, but right now it’s red. And, I I welcome any anybody who has a thought or or ex a helpful voice for that. So I call that the gift of red because it’s human nature when somebody provides a poor result or or or poor status To get annoyed and and to maybe even wanna beat up the messenger. That’s just human instinct. And I I think that, you know, as a leader, you gotta step the culture of your company such that people are allowed and able and feel comfortable to share what’s not working. If you do that, then you get what I call the gift of red.


Patrick Thean [00:18:22]:

You get early warning that something’s not gonna work well, and then you have more time to actually solve that. So I hunt for the reds, before my weekly meeting and then I seek out the gift of red. And then the first thing I try and say, I’m only humans. I don’t always get it right. But the first thing I try to say is thank you. Thank you for providing that. And then let’s just dive into it and try very, very hard not to blame the messenger for that risk. Because once you do that, people are gonna be afraid ex To share something that’s not working and then and then, and and then people will wait until they can solve it.


Patrick Thean [00:18:59]:

And then if they can’t solve it, ex share it, but guess what? You’ve probably lost 3 or 4 weeks of of early warning to help and resolve that.


Scott McCarthy [00:19:10]:

I love that whole the gift of red concept. I think that is fantastic. Basically, it boils down to psychological safety within your organization. And as well, ex I enjoyed what you’re talking about. You know? You’re losing weeks of time to not solve the problem if you don’t have that culture already. But as well, if if you shoot the messenger, then you’re potentially delaying other reds from popping up as well because the other team members around the table see you shooting the messenger. Like, I think I’m yellow right now, but I’m definitely not gonna say I’m red next week. If it is, actually, it doesn’t get better because, like, you know, my my friend Tim there just got shot, ex in front of everyone.


Scott McCarthy [00:19:52]:

So but you said something interesting, and I’d like to, you know, dive more personally into it. And that is, You know, it’s up to the leader to establish the culture of the organization to allow it. So as you as, you know, the owner of your your business and ex leader of your business. How do you go about doing that as you know, especially if you bring someone new into the team? How do you go about actually establishing that culture that enables people to bring problems forward without fear of reprise, without fear of being shot as the messenger so that, you know, they can bring these problems forth, and you guys can solve it together as a team.


Patrick Thean [00:20:32]:

Well, you know, most companies have core values. Right? And, I still remember 20 some years ago, 30 years ago when I ex my career, which has spanned unfortunately many decades now. I remember walking to a customer’s, conference room and this is when, You know, this is in the, I would say this is in the late in the early nineties when, not every company had core values said it. And this company had beautiful ex on the wall. And I complimented them to my customer. I said, hey. You know, this this is one of my values written on the wall. So beautiful.


Patrick Thean [00:21:03]:

I I almost wanna, like, cry. I wanna, like, work here. And my customer surprised me. She said, nah. Whatever. You know, it’s just marketing looks good, but nobody really does that. That really broke my heart. And for for a long time, I I didn’t give much credence to call values.


Patrick Thean [00:21:20]:

In fact, I thought that they were just nonsense that was written on the wall because no one does it anyway. But I learned through the years that actually That company have done it wrong and what I’ve done, I should have learned not they call this stupid, but I should have learned that that company did it wrong. Core values are good. You need to live them well. So I would suggest first of all that Your value system is really the basis that creates the right mindsets for your culture. So one of our core values is, no TDC, no thinly disguised contempt, which actually means that you need to clear the air. That’s 1. The 2nd core value we have ex Is, be appreciative.


Patrick Thean [00:22:02]:

Another one that we have is go the 2nd mile. Go anticipate the needs of your colleagues and your customers ex And give them what they need, not what they ask for, so go the 2nd mile. So somewhere within those 3 core values should create the behavior that says, hey. You know what? When somebody When somebody, doesn’t is in trouble, I need to go the 2nd mile. Or if you if I’m unhappy with you, I need to kinda clear that up. That’s the note to leave this guy’s contempt value. So the values are written. Now it’s really up to everyone in the company.


Patrick Thean [00:22:37]:

Unfortunately unfortunately, I am the lead dog. Right? So unfortunately, that means that I have to model that behavior first. And, again, I’m not perfect. No one’s perfect. So the days when I mauled that behavior incorrectly, and those are bad days, and those are days I gotta kinda ex work hard to, erase. And I often feel like it takes 10 great acts to erase 1 bad act. So, so I would say that a lot of people understand this gift of red and the and and understand inherently ex Not to beat up the messenger, but you gotta create the culture. So it starts with you.


Patrick Thean [00:23:15]:

It starts with whether or not you are demonstrating that it’s okay. Ex It’s a fine line you walk because you want to invite the difficult conversation and at the same time, you’ve gotta find a way to hold that person accountable to results as well. So the gift of red doesn’t necessarily mean That you have a card blog to not execute and not be accountable. Those are 2 different things. But I do think that it it you gotta have both concepts in your head. You gotta be able to say, You know what? The gift of red, does my culture allow that? Does my environment allow that? Have I modeled that behavior It says, hey, Scott. It’s okay. We’ll we’ll we’ll deal with the, consequences later or whatever later, but but let’s work to solve this together.


Patrick Thean [00:24:01]:

Know, I want you to be successful. Let’s work to solve this together. And then at the same time, I think you gotta have enough courage later to say, look, Scott, you know, that didn’t go very well. I get it. But let’s talk about it. Right? Let’s talk about why didn’t that go very well because I’m curious. I’m I’m curious to know, You know what we could have done a little bit better? Maybe you took on too much. Maybe you didn’t have the right tools.


Patrick Thean [00:24:24]:

Maybe you didn’t have the right training. It really Doesn’t matter how we got here. What matters is I just paid for tuition, and I wanna make sure that you learn from that tuition and, and Hopefully, I only pay for tuition once. So that so you gotta you gotta do both. You gotta be able to to say, hey, it’s okay, relax, chill. It’s good. Ex early the issues. And then I think that the 2nd part is I think that you’ve got to have accountability so that everyone learns and gets better as a as a team, as a company so that, that tuition dollars you just spent is well invested and everyone understands that that was tuition spent.


Patrick Thean [00:25:00]:

But it’s okay because, yeah, I like to say to my team, you’re on my team until you’re not on my team. So I’m pretty binary about that. Now not everyone believes that, especially new employees. New employees don’t believe that because they come from cultures that are very different. So I think when someone enters your company, You asked this question earlier, and it was a very good question. So so when a new employee comes in, you know, how do we do some of these things is You gotta help them see the environment. So when a new employee comes in, they’ll hear me say things like, hey. I can’t wait for you to make your first mistake.


Patrick Thean [00:25:34]:

I’ve had people say to me, well, that’s a very strange thing to hear from my CEO. And I said to them, I said, well, think about it. You are gonna make a mistake because if you don’t make any mistakes, That means you’re not you’re not, pushing the boundaries enough. You’re just staying safe. You have more you can give me. So I can’t wait to see your 1st mistake. Then I share with them how this environment is a risk taking environment. So if I if you take risk, what does that mean? Clearly, I expect you to make a mistake.


Patrick Thean [00:26:04]:

I can’t say, Scott, I want to see you take risk, make good decisions, take some risks, but dude, you better not screw up. Well, that I’m gonna not take any risk then. Right? If if you’d say to me, You better not screw up. Well, no. So I like to tell people, look, I expect you to make some mistakes. In fact, if you’re not making enough mistakes, then, you Probably something’s not right here. You’re not pushing hard enough. You’re not testing the boundaries.


Patrick Thean [00:26:30]:

You’re not experimenting. You’re not you’re not trying things. Ex So that’s kind of the thinking that I have about bringing an employee in. They gotta see, and then they got to understand because words words only give you a surface understanding. Your eyes let you see a deeper understanding and then your actions confirm that you have understanding. So it’s a process. It’s it’s not, like, instant.


Scott McCarthy [00:26:58]:

It’s definitely not a one and done thing. Right? It takes time. You know? It takes a lot of effort, and it’s daily. And and It’s one of those things that, you you you said it, and you can’t forget it once you get there because, as you said, one mistake by you, and it takes, you know, 10 more 10 more acts, of good to kinda not erase it, but rather re regain from it per se. I I liked what you talked about earlier about, You know, looking at a problem, you know, mistake or whatever, and not focusing on the individual, rather that problem, that mistake at the time, and then later revisiting it. I talk about this a lot. In fact, we, I run a mastermind community, the leader growth mastermind. Ex We meet weekly, and I have curated content for them and all this stuff.


Scott McCarthy [00:27:47]:

We’re we’re having this conversation with one of the members. One of their people had made a mistake. And they’re trying to figure out the best way to go through it. And I said, listen. Like, 90% of problems out there our systems problems. So, you probably seen the triangle, right, of problems. It starts at cultures, goes to systems, goes to habits, rituals, and then it goes to individual. Ex 90% of the problems out there, mistakes that occur up there is due to some kind of systematic failure.


Scott McCarthy [00:28:14]:

So look at that first before we start blaming. But then as we fix it, we talk about the process that you kinda outlined, and I have a very similar thing. We call it the after action review. Okay. What went right? What went wrong? What can we do better next time? How can we mitigate what happened this time, you know, in the future. And we look at it very systematically, and, generally, people are very responsive, very receptive to that type of, you know, approach because it’s not like, you, Patrick, you screwed up. You’re the reason why this failed, blah blah blah blah blah. Or rather, it looked like, okay.


Scott McCarthy [00:28:48]:

What was the systematic error sign the scenes that we may not see every day that potentially cause this. Was it you know, you weren’t properly trained? Was it you weren’t properly given guidance? Was it ex not the proper tools, was not enough time, whatever. And we look at it from that approach first, and that enables the person to actually get into a a a more relaxed space, and then they will provide more advice. You said earlier in the podcast of, you know, you get defensive. And that happens on both sides of coin, right, when you’re asked a question you don’t know and you get defensive. Well, if they don’t know or they feel like you could be, you know, after their head per se because of this error mistake. They’ll get defensive too, and they’ll be start look into blame other things face going. You know, this is wrong, blah blah blah.


Scott McCarthy [00:29:34]:

Maybe I coulda did this better here, and now we’re in the growth zone. And that’s what we want because, you know, tie into something else you said earlier, which is, you know, meetings are expensive, especially with senior leaders. Well, freaking hiring is expensive too. We don’t wanna be firing people and hiring all the time or having people quit because that process is equally, if not more expensive. So I really enjoyed that whole segment there.


Patrick Thean [00:30:00]:

Oh, thank you.


Scott McCarthy [00:30:01]:

So, we’re talking about, you know, teams. We’re talking about rhythms, and we’ve talked about meetings. We talk about a lot of different stuff in here. And then I’m skimming through your book, and there’s a couple things that, that I that kinda ex pop that at me, Patrick. I I wanna dive in a little bit deeper. And one of those was your stop doing list, which is, like, yes. I really like this concept, right, the stop doing list. So can can we start dive into that one a little bit, deeper? And, like, how does ex one, the leader out there, you know, go into stop doing this.


Scott McCarthy [00:30:37]:

And, actually, I’ll back it up. So here at the podcast, you know, we’re about peak performance, but we’re about peak performance ex what I call my 3 domains, and that is myself, my team, and my organization. So how can we, you know, dive into a stop doing list across those 3 domains for the leaders out there.


Patrick Thean [00:30:56]:

Yeah. I think that, you know, as a company grows, what happens is we outgrow different processes and ex different things that we have, in the company. So we do a start stop keep. Right? What what are some ideas that you wanna start doing? What are some ideas that you that, have no longer no longer worthy of of time and energy? Maybe your company’s outgrown them, or maybe maybe we’re done, and it’s we call what would you stop doing. And then finally, you know, what’s working really well that you wanna kinda double down on, and Those are keeps. Now the challenge is usually that we have a lot more starts, lots more more ideas, and we don’t have a lot of stops. So I encourage everyone to realize that, in order to start new projects, you actually have to finish old ones Or you have to, stop some old ones because you need to make space for new things. So whatever you said yes to in the start, You’ve also said no to in considering new ideas.


Patrick Thean [00:31:56]:

So I would say that, ex In our quarterly planning, we have a rhythm for you to provide a start, stop, keep, and we encourage people to do that at the company level, ex your team level and also on your personal level. And from that place, you will be able to gather a list of stops. Now you get all kinds of stuff in the list of stops. Not everything in the list of stops is worthy of stopping. And oftentimes I find that, you know, people make the mistake of providing a stop, but it’s really what I call a stop in disguise. Let’s stop doing this, but I want us to do this instead. So that to me is really a a a start in disguise. Or something’s not really working very well, so I like us to stop this report, but I want us to create this other ex so that’s a that’s a start in disguise.


Patrick Thean [00:32:42]:

I really try and look for, things that can dehassle the company, ex things that you really wanna stop and not replace that with anything. Those to me are golden because that actually frees up energy ex Versus a stop that is in disguise of a start, didn’t free up any energy. All you did was a swap out. Stop doing this and do that. You just did a swap out. And in fact, it’s very hard to think that way. So it takes a few it takes a few rounds and of of doing this For people to really recognize that, you know, these these are stops. These are stops.


Patrick Thean [00:33:18]:

These are keeps. And then Oftentimes when I walk into a new company, a new client, they’ll have a lot of reports, a lot of things that they’re doing. And I’ll ask them Who receives reports? Reports is an easy target for me, so I’ll just use an easy target. Okay? So so who receives reports, and can we stop them? And, Lots of times if the company is, rather, you’ve been around 10, 20, 30 years. Sometimes we have reports that date back 15, 20 years ago, and my client can’t tell who actually used that report. I said, well, why don’t you stop producing it? I said, well, because someone may need it. I’m scared to stop it because I don’t know what I’m gonna break. So here’s where I like to live a little dangerously.


Patrick Thean [00:34:01]:

My clients know that when they hire me and my team, we we we live a little bit on the edge. I see the best way to figure that out without wasting a lot of energy to go find out who the heck needs this report is just to stop. If no one runs to your office and says, Scott, where the heck is this report that I need every Monday? Okay. You need it. Great. I’m sorry I stop it. I’ll just restart it tomorrow. You’ll get it tomorrow.


Patrick Thean [00:34:25]:

But instead of spending a lot of time doing analysis, I just stop these reports. And then if no one comes and bugs you about it, you know, it’s gonna be fine. I had a client once that I asked them to work on their key performance ex and he said, Patrick, you’d be very proud of me. KPIs, I got them, man. I got them in style. He gives me a book of, like, literally a lot of key performance indicators. I asked him. I said, hey, tell me of this whole deck here, what is the top 3 that you really care about? He couldn’t answer the question.


Patrick Thean [00:34:59]:

So what I talk to you really care about, he say. I I really I you know, they’re all important. I said, no. The then we trust you look at. Right? He’s he The truth is if they’re all important, that means you don’t have the time to look at them. That means you don’t look at any of them. So we had the whole discussion. Ex and for your teams.


Patrick Thean [00:35:22]:

He goes, well, lots of people need them. I said, okay. Who needs them? Which guys and gals need them? Like, who needs them? Ex And again, well, we’ve been doing this for years. I said, okay. Well, he said, what do you think we should do? I said, I think you should just stop them. Stop them and come up with which are your top 10 KPIs. Ex And, but but but people depend on it. I get great.


Patrick Thean [00:35:42]:

Those people depend on it. When they find out you stopped it, they’ll come tell you. So He made an announcement. He he he took the challenge. He made an announcement to the team. He said, guys, I’m gonna stop this book of KPIs and Anyone needs it, come tell me the ones you want, and I won’t stop those. Well, very few people came. Almost no one came to tell him which KPIs they wanted.


Patrick Thean [00:36:07]:

CEO came and said these are the few that I want. That’s it. Nobody else came and told them the KPIs they wanted. So he took a deep breath and he tore up the book and then, different people, they come out to work after that and say, well, wait a minute. What about this inventory ex KPI I used to get. Alright. Fine. We’ll put it back in.


Patrick Thean [00:36:24]:

And he ended back up with a very thin set of KPIs really, really ex and that’s where you wanna be because you don’t wanna measure everything that moves. You only wanna measure the things that matter, and The things that matter unfortunately change. So what happens as a company grows is that this matters right now, so we measure it. We’ve moved on to a different place. This over here now matters. That’s fine. So you measure this and you measure that. Then we move on to a different place and now every place you go, you pick up some key performance indicators that you wanna measure.


Patrick Thean [00:37:02]:

But most of us don’t turn around and stop the ones that we were measuring and ask ourselves do we still need to do this. So over time, it’s very easy to just collect ex a lot of work that nobody really cares about, but everyone’s afraid to question because at some point in time, something broke when we didn’t have these. Ex Okay. So let’s figure out if life has changed in them. I mean, something’s got automated so you don’t need these things anymore. Life has changed. And I think that ex Sometimes, by the way, this is also similar to a company who is very good in process. I’m not digging process.


Patrick Thean [00:37:39]:

I believe in process too. We have a lot of processes at my company, but I I think that, Most of us leaders need to not be dualistic thinkers. We need to train ourselves not to go, well, it’s either a Or b, but really ask yourself how possibly could it be maybe a and b? Like, ex The the power of the a n d, I like to call that, is something that maybe opens our mind to that third alternative. But I think too often we’re thinking, Well, we to do this, we gotta stop that. To do that, we gotta stop this. So that’s what I mean by dualistic thinking. And instead, maybe we can figure out ex How to see the value. There’s probably a little bit of value in this item and a little bit of value in this item.


Patrick Thean [00:38:21]:

So when I say a and b, I don’t mean take the full a and the full b. I mean, slowing down enough to figure out what are the little bits of value in a that you can extract, ex What are the little bits of value to be that you can extract? And maybe that then combines and creates the third option for yourself that you didn’t see before.


Scott McCarthy [00:38:47]:

Stop writing the report. I I I did that in my in my current job when I took over. There was a report that was getting generated every week, and I looked at them like, I don’t ex care. And they were like, yes. But, you know, your your predecessor wanted. I’m like, why? They’re like, ex And I was like, well, it wasn’t obviously that important when we chain when we when he handed his job off to me that he didn’t even mention about it, really. Ex So I’m like, alright. They’re like, well, other people read it.


Scott McCarthy [00:39:17]:

I’m like, okay. Cool. I don’t know. I’m like, I don’t know either. So, ex Yeah. I stopped it. And it, like, freed up the team. And all of a sudden, they’re like, this is great.


Scott McCarthy [00:39:28]:

I’m like, okay. You know? They’re like, but but they came back to, like, well, there’s parts with that are good for us internally. Cool. It’s yours. You do with it you what you’d need it internally. It has nothing to do with me, and I don’t really care about it or need it. And lo and behold, not a single person came to my door and complained that this report was no longer being done to the same level or anything as it was, you know, as it has been in the past. So, yes, for you leaders out there and you’re you’re wondering about what’s going with those TPS reports and where do they go after, you know, they get handed from from Bob to so and so.


Scott McCarthy [00:40:03]:

Well, just stop feeding Bob and see what happens because I guarantee you, I bet there will be a lot less impact than what you think. So. It’s awesome. Patrick, this has been a great conversation, and, like, we’ve literally only, like, hit little skins of tops of various, you have in your book, Rhythm. Before I I’ll give you an opportunity to, talk about you and your team, but, we’re gonna slowly wrap up here, and I got couple last questions for you. The first being question asked all the guests here at the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast. And that is according to you, Patrick Dean, what makes a great leader.


Patrick Thean [00:40:44]:

So, I don’t really know what makes a great leader. I focus on helping leaders achieve breakthroughs to the teams to achieve their dreams. So so I I’ll share with you the things I look for that what I I call, ex contribute to execution leadership execution leadership. Okay? So I would first begin with, emotional intelligence, and That’s from Daniel Goleman. So that’s not from me, but he talks about emotional intelligence having 5 key things, self awareness, self regulation, motivation, empathy, in social skills. Social skill meaning that you can guide people to do the things that they need to do. So that’s what social skill means, not about drinking wine and ex Enjoy each other’s company. Sometimes when I don’t like to explain social skill, people think, oh, I need to be able to go out and, like, call a party.


Patrick Thean [00:41:33]:

I’m like, no. No. No. No. That’s not what social skill means in this context. And then I’ve got about I’ve got, another 5 or 6 items that I really care about that help you with great execution. One is candor. I think a leader who’s leading his team or her team in execution needs to be able to speed be candid.


Patrick Thean [00:41:52]:

Ex needs to be able to share things that are working, things that are not working, needs to the courage to be candid. The next thing is to be curious. So you’re gonna have enough curiosity in you to ask about what went wrong, what what’s red versus so if your curiosity, ex outweighs your blaming factor in your mind. You know, that’s kind of part of my DNA is I’m very curious And I’m a little bit playful too. So I’m very curious, and I wanna know why and how and what. I’m much more interested to understand something than to figure out who screwed up. So be very curious. And then I think a a leader’s job is to coach, not scold.


Patrick Thean [00:42:35]:

So you want us to coach and help people understand how they can, learn to collaborate with others as well. You gotta own it. You gotta own it. You there’s a owning mentality versus a victim mentality. Right? Victim mentality is, well, wait a minute. That wasn’t my fault. Right? Owning mentality is okay. I got it.


Patrick Thean [00:42:52]:

Happened under my watch and then your brain be screaming. That’s not my fault, but it’s okay. You say, you know, I own it. Let’s figure that out. And then I think that praising and correcting needs to happen very quickly. That’s hard to do. Praising is easier than correcting, ex Both need to happen very quickly. And then the last 1 I would have is, the difference between delegation an application.


Patrick Thean [00:43:20]:

So a lot of leaders think that they’re delegating, but they’re not. They’re really advocating going, hey, Scott. Ex go ahead and take this project. I’ll delegate it to you, and when you’re done, wrap up a nice bow and bring it back to me. That’s application. That’s sending somebody on on on on a journey without being present, without being helpful, without coaching, and without being curious. So delegation to me also has an element of accountability where you wanna have that person be accountable to results along the way so that person will succeed because if you just send that person off on a journey of application, and that person comes back A month later and says, hey, Patrick. Look.


Patrick Thean [00:44:01]:

I’ve finished. And you look at it, you go, woah. That’s not what I expected. Well, whose fault is that now? You’re not in a tough position. You’ve wasted a month. So I think a lot of people don’t know the difference between delegation with accountability attached ex an an application. So those that’s kinda what I look for when I think of ex of leadership from an execution getting thing done getting things done perspective.


Scott McCarthy [00:44:26]:

Hey. That’s great. I appreciate that very much. And and a final question of the show, how can people find you, follow you, grab a copy of your book? It’s all about you now. Great.


Patrick Thean [00:44:37]:

Thank you. Well, you know, you can follow me on on, rhythm is my website, ex And, my email is So, I’m I think I’m also on on LinkedIn and, you know, the usual places.


Scott McCarthy [00:44:54]:

That’s awesome. And for the listeners always, it’s easy for you. Just go to lead the boss forward slash two four two, and the links are in the show notes. Patrick and sir, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. I know Mondays are rough for you, so I greatly appreciate you’re able to sneak us in here because it was definitely worth it.


Patrick Thean [00:45:11]:

Thank you. I enjoy myself, and Mondays are very enjoyable for me, actually. So thank you for being part of my Monday. Ex And


Scott McCarthy [00:45:20]:

that’s a wrap for this episode, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening. Ex Thank you for supporting the peak performance leadership podcast. But you know what you could do to truly support the podcast and know that’s not leaving a rating and you. It’s simply helping a friend, and that is helping a friend by sharing this episode with them if you think this would resonate with them and help them elevate their performance level, whether that’s within themselves, their teams, or their organization. So do that. Help me. Help a friend.


Scott McCarthy [00:45:53]:

Win win all around. And, hey. You look like a great friend at the same time. So Just hit that little share button on your app, and then feel free to fire this episode to anyone ex that you feel would benefit from it. Finally, there’s always more. There’s always more lessons around being the highest performing leader that you can possibly be, whether that’s for yourself, your team, or your organization. So why don’t you subscribe? Subscribe to the show via moving forward leadership .comforward/subscribe. Until next time, speed.


Scott McCarthy [00:46:32]:

Don’t boss, and thanks for coming out. Take care now.