Future-Proof Your Success: Self-Awareness, AI, and Elite Mentoring | Tony Frost | Episode 348

Scott McCarthy [00:05:31]:
Tony. Sir, welcome to the show. So good to have you here.

Tony Frost [00:05:34]:
Yeah, thank you, Scott. Pleasure to be with you.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:37]:
Absolutely. So today we’re talking. You know, actually, I’ll back up. We, you know, the world we live in now is all around AIs everywhere. Like it is everywhere. I literally use I don’t know how many tools of AI to help me produce this podcast episode in the end, but the one thing which we don’t talk about often is it in leadership and how we might use it in a leadership context. And whenever I get into discussions around that, people generally quickly, immediately go, well, leading people is all about people and people and like, true. But you know, it’s a, it’s a huge tool that we can definitely leverage.

Scott McCarthy [00:06:19]:
So I’m excited for the conversation today.

Tony Frost [00:06:21]:
Good. Yes, I’m looking forward to it.

Scott McCarthy [00:06:24]:
So when I say that what comes to your mind initially, like that whole leading is all about people and people to people, and AI has no real place for it.

Tony Frost [00:06:37]:
Well, I mean, leading is about people. A leader without followers is just having a picnic. But AI is important and there’s different ways that AI can be harnessed by companies and by leaders. But leaders can’t forget that at the end of the day, it’s a human connection. AI can enhance it, but it’s not going to replace it. Well, hopefully not anytime soon.

Scott McCarthy [00:06:59]:
No, absolutely. So definitely wouldn’t want to pick your brain on how we might leverage it best here today. So why don’t we dive into first off, like, what caused you to be inspired to write this book in the first place? What was like, oh, I got to talk about this.

Tony Frost [00:07:17]:
In my book, the Professional A Playbook to unleash your potential and future, proof your success. I’ve been writing, Scott, for seven years and I started it when I came back from Harvard. I did an executive education course. In the middle of 2018, I started writing my book. And it’s not all about automation and AI, but I could see even then where it was heading. Anyway, so when ChatGPT came out in November 2022, I really pulled my finger out and got on and finished it. The reason I wrote the book, it’s really to act as a catalyst for me to give master classes to professionals, mainly young professionals, to help them get ahead. I had a terrific first career, 34 year career as a tax lawyer and chartered accountant.

Tony Frost [00:07:54]:
Lots of things, made lots of mistakes. I’ve done a master of science in coaching psychology and I love teaching and so I’m trying to teach young generation how to avoid the mistakes I made and also how to, how to get the best out of their future and prepare themselves in the world of artificial intelligence.

Scott McCarthy [00:08:08]:
That’s awesome. And I love talking about mistakes because I love listening, you know, listening to people, how they overcame them and learning from that. And they say that’s true wisdom is learning from someone else’s mistakes or that’s how you give wisdom or be wise is to talk about your mistakes and help others overcome those. So what were some that stick out in your mind today that the listeners can take and harness moving forward in their careers? Yeah.

Tony Frost [00:08:36]:
Oh yes. Well, one of them, when I was a leader, I led a law firm at the end of my career for about seven years and I, I regret now in difficult situations listening to legal advice when I was making tricky decisions, particularly retrenching people and looking back, I could have been a bit more humane when I had to make people redundant and I was a bit too legalistic. So certainly I think that getting legal advice by a leader is important. But you can’t forget the humane bits, the humility that you need to have when you’re making big decisions and firing people. Other mistakes. Sometimes I was a bit too transactional with people. You’re busy when you, when you’re going up through your career and hitting your peak in your 30s and 40s or maybe 50s, you’re busy and you’ve got client, if you’re a professional, you’ve got clients to serve and slowing down and spending enough time with people. Another mistake, quite frankly was work, life balance.

Tony Frost [00:09:30]:
People probably rolling their eyes hearing that. But I’m lucky I’m still married with two lovely grown up daughters. But looking back, if I had my time over, I just didn’t need to work quite as much.

Scott McCarthy [00:09:41]:
Yeah, for sure, I hear you on that one. Especially the latter one. I got the two young sons myself and tried to make that balance. I think one of the things is for me it’s the acceptance that having balance is accepting that there’s imbalance in that sometimes work is going to take priority but other times family life is going to take priority. And how you make that shift is what matters to me most. Yes, absolutely.

Tony Frost [00:10:08]:
Well, yeah, in my book, Scott, I have a, have a five factor model.

Scott McCarthy [00:10:12]:
In my beautiful great transition.

Tony Frost [00:10:16]:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:10:16]:
Care about this.

Tony Frost [00:10:17]:
Yeah, no, but, but the first factor is self care. So just picking up what we’re speaking about, I’ve written, I’ve written a whole chapter around self care professionals. It’s called put your own oxygen mask on first and I describe A range of self care practices. And in my book, at the end of each chapter I have a little autobiographical bit. And in that chapter I say, listen, in the case of this chapter about self care, it’s more a case of do as I say rather than what I did. But in my second career, Scott, I am trying to adopt all those self care practices.

Scott McCarthy [00:10:47]:
So can we dive deeper on this whole self care bit? Because I find that super important and something that leaders don’t necessarily look into as much. So when we talk about self, self care, you know, what exactly do you mean and how would one go about, you know, executing on that?

Tony Frost [00:11:03]:
Yeah, sure. In my book it’s fairly, it’s fairly rich in detail with lots of references. And in self care I talk about five things and the first one I quote, absolute Harvard Business Review junkie. And it’s in the book, I quote an article from Harvard business review from 20 years ago. It’s called the making of a Corporate Athlete. And what the authors did, it’s fascinating. They used to train tennis players and they worked out, this is 20 years ago, well before Rafael Nadal, the best tennis players, they hooked them up to machines to measure their heart. And the best tennis players were the ones that really had a good break, actually were able to calm down between points and actually just relax and had a routine.

Tony Frost [00:11:43]:
Of course, Rafael Nadal, who’d now retired, he took the idea of sort of rituals between points to an absolute next level. So what these authors were saying is self care for athletes. Athletes have only got a short career. They train, they know how to rest and recover. And so the same, so business, business people are in career for decades and they, they should be doing the same thing. So it’s all about rituals to have rest and recovery. Then I speak, I talk about sleep and I, and so sleep so important, Scott. I mean we, we all know we should get enough sleep.

Tony Frost [00:12:13]:
But I, I make the point that even stressed out mergers and acquisition lawyers, investment bankers, I mean I did this in my 20s and 30s. Some people like M and A lawyers, investment bankers, they just think they can punch through and do all nighters. It’s just madness. I quote the latest research around sleep and the importance of trying to get seven hours a night. I talk about self compassion and here I am, I’m the next big end of town tax lawyer, talking about self compassion and treating yourself like you treat yourself, your best friend. I talk about resilience and Scott, in the world today, resilience is one of those phrases that employees throw around. They want their employees to be resilient. Scott? Yep.

Tony Frost [00:12:52]:
And what they mean basically is just turn up like a punching bag and get the S knocked out of you every day. And that’s not how the world works. Yeah. So good employees, people want to keep their staff in this, in this age of artificial intelligence, when best people are going to still have choices about where they go and you have to look after your people. And it’s resilience is a two way street about the employers helping employees. And the fifth thing I talk about is breathing. And so there’s been incredible research in recent decades around the importance or duh of slow, deep, diaphragmatic breathing. And I have latest research, I’m quoting there.

Tony Frost [00:13:26]:
Anyway, so there’s a few practices for self care. There’s lots of other things you can do. Mindfulness and meditation, getting out of the office, if you work in office still, or even if you’re working from home, wherever you’re working, either at home or in the office, get out during the day and have a walk in nature. I mean, simple things to do, you.

Scott McCarthy [00:13:42]:
Know, it’s all those things, as you just summarize with it’s simple things to do. Yet we find it so difficult to do that I’m interested to find out whether or not you did some research to say, you know, why is it that we find these things so hard to do in the first place? Like, why don’t we do mindfulness? Why don’t we just take a break and go out and get away from the office for 10, 15 minutes? Why don’t we exercise regularly? You know, why don’t we take care of ourselves? Why?

Tony Frost [00:14:15]:
Yeah, I know. Truth be, not only anyone really knows. I mean, some people are born with different motivational genes than others. But I think rather than asking why I don’t do this, how can you help people? And so the absolute best way I’ve come across in the research is having accountability. So for example, if you’re a married couple or you have a friend or someone at work and you make a pact with somebody and then you put up on a whiteboard somewhere what you’re doing or you hold each other accountable. So, Scott, about 10 years ago I was going to Machu Picchu and I was going to trek around Peru and Machu Picchu and I had to get in shape. And what I did was I needed to lose a bit of weight. And so what I did, Scott, 10 years ago on Facebook, every week for six months, I put on Facebook what my weight was and what my goal Was.

Tony Frost [00:15:06]:
And so I put accountability out there to the world. God damn it, I lost those 10 kilos, guys.

Scott McCarthy [00:15:11]:
Yeah, that’s definitely one way to execute on accountability in public, that’s for sure. But, hey, kudos to you, man. And doing that. It takes a lot of courage, like us to do that. So well done to you.

Tony Frost [00:15:22]:
Yeah, public. But there’s plenty of evidence that having an account, someone you trust, someone you know, someone you respect, and ideally, quite frankly, if they have a goal, too. So you. You’ve got someone close to you, and you swap goals, you help each other out, you hold each other accountable. And of course, in the business world, Scott, mentors. So one of the things I speak about in my book is the importance of mentors, especially for younger professionals. It’s a funny world. I mean, the world’s got busier and faster, and some organizations don’t provide the mentoring to the younger people they used to some decades ago.

Tony Frost [00:15:57]:
And in this crazy world of working from home rather than the office, I mean, smart employers will make sure that they don’t forget to mentor their young professionals, even if they’re not in the office as much.

Scott McCarthy [00:16:07]:
That’s a huge, huge point. And actually, I’ll just kind of. I’ll kind of dive in here for a second. Say, like, that is actually one of the reasons why I created my leader, Leader growth Mastermind. Because a lot of places out there are not providing mentorship to their employees. Their junior team leads, their managers, which is. That’s what this community is geared towards. So it’s.

Scott McCarthy [00:16:31]:
It’s very like a group coaching scenario where people show up and like, hey, I’m having this problem. What do you guys think? And, you know, we bounce the idea around, and then I lead the call itself, and I jump in and like, hey, you know, you can think of this, you can think of that. Look at it from this angle, look at it from that angle, and, you know, here are some things you might want to consider. And this is kind of the approach I would take on that.

Tony Frost [00:16:54]:
Yeah, it’s great.

Scott McCarthy [00:16:56]:
You know, it’s great, but it’s actually sad at the same time because it’s needed because one, a lot of organizations simply don’t have that type of mentorship built into them, or two, they don’t have the psychological safety in which the team lead or the manager feels confident and comfortable going up to their supervisor, going up to someone more senior in the organization and saying, hey, I got this issue, and I’m not 100% sure how to handle it.

Tony Frost [00:17:25]:
Yep, yep. You’re absolutely on the money. It’s very sad. And I think smart organizations will get this and invest in their leaders and their managers to be able to provide that support. So I greatly admire the Gallup organization. And Gallup’s done amazing research for many decades and all manner of things. And in recent years, Gallup has done worldwide research around what, what makes workplaces tick. Well, they wrote a 400 page book a few years ago called it’s the Manager.

Tony Frost [00:17:59]:
And in the middle of that book there’s just one sentence that blows you away. Gallup says if we have one piece of advice for organizations that is to equip their leaders and managers to be coaches. And that’s it. So the 400 Gallup’s Research for Decades 400 page book basically comes down to equipping leaders and managers to be coaches. And so rather than command and control to actually coach. And coaching includes mental mentorship? Basically. Yes. And that’s a different world from, from what most people brought up in.

Tony Frost [00:18:27]:
And most organizations are still struggling with that.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:30]:
No, for sure, like 100%. You know, I think, I think coaching is definitely, and being a coaching leader is definitely.

Tony Frost [00:18:39]:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:40]:
Crucial to organizations development and growth and crucial to the, you know, the, the team’s development and growth. And for the listener out there, if you’re interested more in a mastermind, just go to leaddon’tboss.com mastermind where you, you can find out all about it, all the benefits and you want to invest in yourself, then sign up right there. And speaking investing with yourself, I’d love to hear your perspective about that and, and how leaders out there should invest themselves. Themselves. How might, what should they invest in and you know, what type of mentality mindset should they have?

Tony Frost [00:19:18]:
Yeah, well, there’s a few things there. And if we think about putting out artificial intelligence aside for a moment, then the core aspects of what it takes to be leader and what you should concentrate on haven’t really changed. I mean, you’ll get different views from people. But a couple of things stand out for me. One is emotional intelligence in particular, self awareness. And so some people can climb up the greasy pole and get to a position of leadership and behind their backs. People are not especially impressed with some of their leaders because they’re not really reading the room, so to speak. And so, I mean, Daniel Goleman wrote the book Emotional Intelligence back in the 90s and it’s still a thing.

Tony Frost [00:19:57]:
I mean leaders still need to be self aware to understand how they’re coming across what, what is it that they’re saying projecting how they’re in the self awareness but then awareness of how others are reacting to them. And to quite Frank you can’t really get that without doing some form of feedback. So number one leaders need to have a good sense of self awareness and that typically involves some form of feedback or Psychometric testing 360s I know people rolling their eyes but leaders need to know how they’re showing up and and they have to get some form of feedback from others. The next thing I would say for a leader is humility. And this name won’t probably mean much to people in Canada but there’s a guy called David Gonski AC he’s Australia’s leading businessman and I interviewed him some years ago for a course I was teaching at university and he asked David to tell my MBA class what most important thing about a leader was. And he said the first thing is a leader must have humility. And so here he is Australia’s leading, he’s called the chairman for everything this guy David Gonski AC he’s led more Australian companies and organizations than anyone else and he is a humble person. He spoke about humility.

Tony Frost [00:21:13]:
So I think Scott leaders having self awareness and not only that but humility to be able to listen closely to others. As Gonski said, if you’re negotiating with someone who’s not humble it’s a bit like playing tennis with someone doesn’t have a backhand, you can just lop it into the court every time. And there’s a certain president of a large country near yours at the moment who probably is a classic example of someone lacking humility and the decisions he makes and how he negotiates. It’s suboptimal.

Scott McCarthy [00:21:43]:
Yeah. I’m going to bypass on commenting on the last part but I would say is there will be a fair bit of the audience who will know who you mentioned because Australia is number three in our my following list. So to all my Aussie fans, thank you for tuning in. Tony thanks you as well but you’re 100% right. Like to me humility is crucial. Like it is crucial. It is a non negotiable. As a leader you must have humility because if you think come across as a know it all then essentially what you end up doing is the whole bossing aspect of my tagline which is lead don’t boss.

Tony Frost [00:22:27]:
Yeah.

Scott McCarthy [00:22:28]:
You just end up telling everyone what to do because you know best but the reality is you don’t.

Tony Frost [00:22:34]:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:22:34]:
And nor should you know be know best for Everything. If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. And that is definitely what it, what, how leading is because you have experts in all kinds of different fields. What you’re there for is make the best informed decision at that moment and give your team guidance and direction. So yeah, it’s a lot of humility to execute on that properly. Love it, love it. Moving on. I love to hear some more, you know, some more about, you know, the digital age.

Scott McCarthy [00:23:08]:
We kind of hinted a bit at the beginning about AI, but, but also more about the digital age as we move forward here now in 2025, moving towards 2026. How might leaders leverage these tools to enable them for success moving forward?

Tony Frost [00:23:25]:
Well, I think the first thing, Scott, is actually understanding these tools when a leader wakes up in the morning, making it a priority to actually find out what the hell’s going on in their organization. So I know this is a pretty basic thing, but how organizations are or are not using AI in their organizations at the moment is a first order governance issue. So the first thing leaders need to do is to get a handle on what their troops are doing out there in the wild with artificial intelligence. And organizations around the world, I think certainly in Australia are only waking up to this to actually ensure that they’re using AI safely and well and in the most productive fashion. So I mean basic things like not putting client data into an open AI GPT type model, for example. Secondly, these things hallucinate and actually checking. We’re a long way away for some, some of your older listeners will remember the film Space Odyssey 2001. Space Odyssey and the very creepy HAL 9000 artificial intelligence machine.

Tony Frost [00:24:28]:
And that, that was, I mean it was science fiction from 1969, but we actually had there a genuine artificial intelligence tool. We don’t have that yet. Right. So AI tools at the moment, they’re getting better exponentially. But first thing leaders need to do is to make sure that they’ve got guardrails around their use and that organizations and people inside know what they can and can’t do and they’re not compromising customer and client information and they’re using them as productively as possible.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:58]:
You know, it’s, I used to say all the time I said I would be talking to people but. And we would talk about trading and there’s a link here and I would say, you know what? My bet, the best course I ever took was would you guess what? The best course my whole career, what.

Tony Frost [00:25:16]:
It was that you took?

Scott McCarthy [00:25:19]:
Yeah, well, yeah, okay. My.

Tony Frost [00:25:24]:
Now you guys are.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:24]:
It was Outlook. Outlook. It was how it was, how to use Outlook properly. That was the best course. And I’m serious. And still today I say that to my team all the time. I said, I forget what it was actually called, but it was basically like Outlook for Dummies. But of course I’ve been using Outlook at that point for I don’t know, 14, 15 years, something like this.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:49]:
And, and I said, okay, well you know what, I’ll jump on this course. Like I’m sure I can learn one thing or two. Changed everything how I operate it. Right. But you know, and you know, so many organizations just do fall into this fallacy trap of I’ll give them the tool and they’ll figure it out. Yeah, that’s right, they will. But it damn well won’t be as effective as if you actually properly trained them on how to use that.

Tony Frost [00:26:20]:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:26:20]:
My current role, I’m just like hammering my training. I’m like training Microsoft Suite like get after it teams get after it. Like get after it get, get our team members on it so that they can learn, you know, how to use the tools properly to their fullest potential. And that’s kind of what I hear from you. The same principle here.

Tony Frost [00:26:43]:
Oh yeah.

Scott McCarthy [00:26:44]:
With AI, obviously the governance piece is huge. Like as soon as you said you don’t put a client’s personal information into open source AI, I’m like, God, yes. Like whoo, you definitely don’t want to do that. So you know, we talked about some of the don’ts. What are some of the do’s out there when we talk about this digital, these digital tools and digital transformations going on now.

Tony Frost [00:27:05]:
Yeah, well, I suppose we have to have a conversation around honesty about the future of the workforce. And you hear pretty okay, so why Nvidia? On any given day, Nvidia is the second or third most valuable company in the world. You’ve got Apple, Microsoft, Nvidia up around US$3 trillion on any given day in the stock market, Nvidia can’t be worth $3 trillion indefinitely unless people are buying the chips and creating AI, which is going to cut jobs. Yeah, I mean it’s naive to think that we’re going to have the same number of workers in every company in five years time. The maths don’t. Math doesn’t work work. Yep. Presumably over time, particularly entry level jobs will, will start to decline in, in many companies because some of the more basic stuff will be done by computer.

Tony Frost [00:27:53]:
So I think an important thing for leaders is to reflect on how they’re going to honestly explain the investments they’re making in AI and what, what the future holds for their workers. You spoke before, Scott, about psychological safety, and that’s very important. So I think smart businesses leaders are going to, you know, get. Find a way to message to their current troops, their current staff, and the staff coming in around how we, how are employing AI and what we think it means for the future of our business and the security of the workers or not, as the case may be.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:23]:
Yeah, for sure. And I think one of the biggest things is like, yes, there will be job cuts, you know, less people required due to AI, due to technology. Like, we’ve seen this through the history of mankind. How many jobs did the printing press delete?

Tony Frost [00:28:43]:
That’s right.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:46]:
A lot of guys like, man, my hand isn’t sore so much anymore because I’m not sitting here writing all day long. But if they worked for a good organization, like, hey, you don’t need to write out all day long. But you know what? We need someone to maintain this piece of kit and we need someone to, you know, jams up, the ink, gets caught, it comes up. So we’re going to teach you how to maintain it. How about that? And I think that’s the thing that people need to understand and as leaders, we need to hone in is that, you know, okay, there might be efficiencies in one aspect of the work, but like, there’s probably places elsewhere that these people can go and things they could do or new roles they could take on.

Tony Frost [00:29:32]:
Yes, I agree with that. I’m not in the doomsday camp. I think jobs will shift around. I mean, for example, we take Australia. We currently have a shortage of accountants. If you think about one profession, it’s likely to be hit pretty hard by AI. It will be accounting. And all the evidence suggests that that’ll be a godsend because we have too few people wanting to be accountants.

Tony Frost [00:29:55]:
I can’t imagine that AI is going to suddenly make a whole lot of accountants redundant in Australia because there’s not enough of them. And these things don’t happen overnight. It’ll take a. And already people aren’t doing accounting in Australia. So AI is a fantastic tool. There’s plenty of evidence in Australia that the firms using AI, the accounting firms, are making more money. And so law is interesting. I speak to a lot of law firms and the sense is they’ll probably take a few less graduates each year.

Tony Frost [00:30:21]:
So maybe this year we’ll take a couple Less next year, A couple less. It’s not going to happen overnight. And you’re quite right, Scottish also, I think you’re right. I think other jobs will be created, just like as you say, with the printing press and then with the, the weaving machines, the Luddites smashing the machines in England and Manchester in the 1700s. So new jobs come along and we’ve seen that since the Second World War with the amazing digital revolution we’ve seen. There’s unemployment in Australia is about as low as it’s ever been. I don’t know what is in Canada, in the US at the moment, but you don’t get the sense that there’s a lot of people on the street because of AI just yet. Okay.

Tony Frost [00:30:55]:
It’s affecting some people more than others and the digital creatives. And you see what happened in Hollywood with a strike a year or two ago. So some people’s careers will be affected, but new jobs will be created.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:05]:
Yeah, you know, here, I don’t think we’ve, we’ve helped felt a large impact just yet from it per se, but end of the day, like, I think, you know, you said it right, like new jobs will be created, like new occupations will develop out of this. When I was, when I was getting ready to apply for universities and stuff, like, my parents never probably thought that a app developer would become an app where engineer was pretty infant at that time. And back in 2000, 2001, you know, this is, this is just how the world evolves and moves on. You know, we have to, I think we have to keep up with it. I think as leaders, we need to keep apprised of it and keep it in the back of our mind. But most importantly, look and see, okay, how can we use this? Leverage this. But as well back to your earlier point, which I’m going to tie this up in the Nepo, from the beginning of some of your mistakes and you mentioned you lack some empathy and when you had to fire people, some humanity there and letting them know, okay, well, maybe, maybe we can look at, okay, what can we do for you? How might we help you with this? Maybe that’s still in the company, maybe that’s somewhere else. Maybe that’s you as a leader picking up the phone and contacting your network saying, hey, I got this person here.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:31]:
It’s really great. Unfortunately, like we’re letting them go, but like, this is the type of role that they’d be great for and I think to be a super great asset for your, for your organization, you know, and like how much time does that actually take?

Tony Frost [00:32:42]:
That’s right. Yep. Lead is heavy.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:46]:
This has been.

Tony Frost [00:32:47]:
Yep, sorry.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:48]:
It’s been a great conversation. I was curious, you know, from your standpoint, is there anything we didn’t touch that you know, you would like, would love for the audience or you know, it’s super important for the audience to take away today.

Tony Frost [00:33:00]:
Well, just to finish on the topic you started on about AI and leadership. So what’s going to happen is it’s starting to happen now is basically sort of personal digital assistant coaching and mentoring tools for leaders. So a lot of leaders need coaching and mentoring. They don’t get around it, they don’t have the time, cost too much. So we’re going to have these really cute devices, basically your phone, watching, monitoring. It’ll give you feedback around how you’re showing up. There’s a huge market there and the things don’t develop already where AI type tools can give leaders real time feedback on how they’re going and that. And so I look forward to that.

Tony Frost [00:33:35]:
Very exciting development, I guess. Very Orwellian, but it’s coming down the pike.

Scott McCarthy [00:33:39]:
No, absolutely. I think we’re just at the tip of the iceberg here with all this stuff. Absolutely. Tony, again it’s been fantastic conversation. Great to have you on today, sir. Final question of show. Where can people find you, follow you, be part of your journey is shameless. Plug have at it is all about you, sir.

Tony Frost [00:33:57]:
Yes, well, Frost leadership and there’s plenty of information about me there. And of course my book once again just come out by Wiley with the forward by David Gonski AC it’s professional a playbook to unleash your potential and future. Proof your success. J.K. rowling, Harry Potter Watch out, I’m coming after you.

Scott McCarthy [00:34:17]:
Oh, I love the enthusiasm, sir. Thank you, that’s awesome. And thank you for taking time to jump on the show with you with me today. I got a lot out of it. No doubt the audience did too. So thank you and take care, sir.

Tony Frost [00:34:30]:
Thank you, Scott.