How to Communicate Effectively | Stephanie Hanna | Episode 144

Scott McCarthy:
Today on episode 144 of the Moving Forward Leadership Podcast, we speak to lawyer Stephanie Hanna and she’s going to teach you how you can inspire your team through your leadership presence.

Scott McCarthy:
That’s right, folks.

Scott McCarthy:
It’s all about communicating effectively today.

Scott McCarthy:
Are you ready for this? All right, let’s do it.

Voice Over:
Welcome to this episode of Moving Forward Leadership. Stick around and learn how to achieve, excel and become a leader that people willingly follow. Lead, don’t boss. And now, here’s the host of our show, Chief leadership officer Scott McCarthy.

Scott McCarthy:
Yes, welcome one welcome all to the Moving Forward Leadership Podcast. It is your Chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy. And welcome to the podcast where we speak about the three domains of leadership and that is leading yourself so that you can be the best leader possible. Leading your team so that you can build them to be high performing teams and then finally leading your organization so that you can increase that organizational output, develop that culture and overall just thrive. And if you need more resources, check out our website@movingforwardleadership.com it’s so great to have you here. It is so great to bring this episode to you today because we are talking about communication and how important is communication?

Scott McCarthy:
If you ever, ever talk to anyone.

Scott McCarthy:
And you ask what happened dude in a relationship, and I’m not talking about an intimate relationship, I’m talking about any relationship, most times it’s a breakdown in communication. If there is a deal that falls apart, it is a breakdown in communication. Everything revolves around communicating and that’s why I brought Stephanie on the show today. She is a lawyer and yes, go ahead, cue the suits, the music. I do make a comment or maybe two in there about it. But she’s also a coach. In fact, she’s been coaching attorneys and other professionals for the past decade and helping them navigate their profession, build their reputations, develop their careers. She’s been a prosecutor, a judicial staff attorney, solo practitioner, a magistrate, and as.

Scott McCarthy:
Well a law firm associate.

Scott McCarthy:
So she understands the dynamics at play in every environment. She’s been successful in different settings and she’s been elected by her peers to serve profession and the community at high levels. And why she refers to it as mastering the other 85. Stephanie knows what it takes to develop, maintain key relationships. And you need to know it because as a leader you need these key relationships. She knows how to value people’s skills and how to find it in attorneys busy practice in life.

Scott McCarthy:
So essentially if she as an attorney.

Scott McCarthy:
Can find all this stuff, then you.

Scott McCarthy:
Can as a leader as well.

Scott McCarthy:
So she’s brought all this together and she refers to as the other 85. And she’s super excited to share it with us. Today, Stephanie and I discuss topics such as why presence is so important as leader, how you can develop your presence, why communication is important in team building, persuasion as an effective leadership tool, how to effectively promote your vision and mission, and so much more. Folks, this is a great interview and an interview with someone who, you know, a type of person that I haven’t had on the show often, but you know, what kind of need to have them on the show more often because we need these communication skills. We need to be able to negotiate and persuade and develop our presence as leaders.

Scott McCarthy:
Why?

Scott McCarthy:
Because this is what gets things done. This is how we get to motivate and inspire our people. So it’s so important. Anyway, you know what? I think that’s enough with me. So why don’t you sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation about how to communicate effectively with Stephanie Hannah.

Scott McCarthy:
Stephanie, welcome to the Moving Forward Leadership podcast. So great to have you here today.

Stephanie Hanna:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be with you.

Scott McCarthy:
Awesome. So one of the first things I get my guests to do is just give a little quick, you know, background on themselves, who they are, where they were, you know, how they got to where they are today. If there’s anything interesting that’s in there, feel free to throw that in the mix too.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes. So I am Stephanie Hannah, and I own a business called the other 85. And the idea is that 15% of your job success comes from hard technical skills. And I help you with the other 85. So relationships, networking, how to work together on a team presence, all of those good things that maybe we sometimes take for granted. But as we move on in our careers, we learn that those are actually the really important things. I live in Columbus, Ohio, and I’ve been a lawyer for the last 12 years. And I have two step kids who are 20 and 17 and two toddlers who are 2 and 3.

Stephanie Hanna:
I’m also currently running for judge here in Franklin County, Ohio, and that’s pretty much it. I work with people individually and in small groups and coach them and encourage them and get them to a place where they feel comfortable building and maintaining relationships and communicating with others.

Scott McCarthy:
You’re not busy at all. Why don’t we throw a couple other things on your plate while we’re at it, will you? Holy smokes, lady business owner. Two kids under four. Like, I feel your pain. I got a five and a two year old. Yes, boys. And yes, yes, I Feel your pain. Yes, good pain, but pain nonetheless.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy:
But fantastic. And best of luck in running for the judgeship judge slot.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yeah, Judgeship judge ship.

Scott McCarthy:
Cool. All right. I learned something from suits, but unfortunately, as we said before, we hit record, this will be out after that. So hopefully I’ll be saying, hey, tagging Judge Stephanie in the social media post when this goes live.

Stephanie Hanna:
Perfect.

Scott McCarthy:
Now here we are, we’re at the Moving Forward Leadership podcast. And sometimes people like lawyer, what’s a lawyer doing on the show? But a lot of great skills out of you fine folks. And you’ve mentioned one thing in that intro that I didn’t even think about. We didn’t even discuss it before we got in here, but I want to go in there. And that as leaders, one of the things that leaders sometimes either lack or naturally have is that presence aspect. And people go, oh. And often this is linked to people saying, oh, they’re a natural leader. And often why? It’s because they have that presence.

Scott McCarthy:
They’re able to portray themselves, ready to protect, able to get up, and people immediately identify them as a leader. So can we go within that route for a bit and say, you know, what are some of the key aspects of being presence of, you know, showing that presence? And the other thing is, if people feel like they don’t have it, how can they do, you know, get it?

Stephanie Hanna:
So I think presence really is that IT factor that we all crave and that we notice in other people. I like to think of it as what’s the reaction that you have when you see someone’s name come across your email inbox or come across your caller ID or when they step into a room. All of those things, they really are your presence and your IT factor. And you’re right, it conveys a message that you are a leader. And the interesting part about it is you might not even really be one, but it helps get you over that initial hump. And the other interesting part is you may really be a leader or want to be a leader and not have that presence. And when you walk into a room, people don’t take you that way and don’t interpret your body language and your demeanor that way. So I work with people a lot on the energy that they bring and I always like to share this study that was done, they took a group of first time skydivers and they put some heart rate monitors on them and let me start that over.

Stephanie Hanna:
They took a group of skydivers and they put some sweat pads on them and they had them run on A treadmill, and then they put a new set of sweat pads on them, and they had them jump out of an airplane, and they took a second set of people and they had them smell those sweat pads while they were monitoring their brains. And I know it is kind of gross. And when they were smelling the sweat pads of the people on the treadmills, nothing happened in their brains. But when they were smelling the sweat pads of the people as they were jumping out of the plane, their own fear and anxiety receptors skyrocketed. And so they picked up on the energy and the fear of the people jumping out of the plane through their sweat, like it was coming out of their body and it was impacting the people smelling it. And so if that doesn’t go to the fact that your presence and your energy and the way that you are carrying yourself bounces off of you and other people absorb it. And it’s science. It’s not really if you’re intending for that to happen or if the recipient is intending for that to happen, but it’s really just about what energy are you bringing? And being mindful that it is absolutely impacting the people around you.

Stephanie Hanna:
And I find that’s a good starting point for people that I work with to understand how important it is. Because even if it’s not important to you or you don’t think it matters, knowing the fact that other people are absorbing it and it’s impacting their psyche can at least get you to want to go down the road of learning more about how to increase your presence.

Scott McCarthy:
That is an amazing, yet disgusting, yet amazing, so interesting. And like, how that kind of ties into. Often what I talk about is during a time of crisis, a leader’s presence need to be a calming presence. Right. You need to show up, and you need to calm the room down, allow people the time and space to think about what actually matters at that moment. Vice showing up and going, ah, the sky’s falling.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes.

Scott McCarthy:
All right, so. And. And now you just kind of scientifically, you know, solidified that in my mind. So that’s. That’s pretty. That’s pretty wild. Now with that. What are some ways that, you know, leaders can ensure that they are projecting the right presence in the moment? How are they able to go about saying, okay, we’re in this situation.

Scott McCarthy:
This is the type of presence, or I need to project that type of presence or whatever? Or is there just, you want project a single type of presence?

Stephanie Hanna:
Yeah. So I like to tell people that if you can get one kind of Persona, so to Speak. If you can nail it and really just work on bringing that energy with you everywhere, it will be that much easier because then it’ll be consistent and people will interpret that with your brand that much quicker. And it’s really simple. It’s stuff that maybe we don’t think about, but it’s the basics. Eye contact, smiling, sitting with your shoulders back, looking around rooms, taking inventory of who’s there, making conversation with people you don’t know. All, like, very little things, right? You don’t have to go up and give some super dynamic speech or be an authority in something. In fact, most great leaders and people with great presence know that they are not the smartest person in the room.

Stephanie Hanna:
And that’s the message that they’re trying to convey. They’re trying to learn and be better from the people around them. So I like to tell people to just think of the person that you admire in this way and start rattling off two or three characteristics of why you admire them. When I do this exercise with a large group of people, we’ll go around the room and I’ll have everyone say their reason. And no one ever says they’re super duper smart. They’re the smartest person in the room. They almost always say they’re calm, they’re friendly, they’re approachable, they’re easy to talk to. They seem like they have confidence.

Stephanie Hanna:
So those are the things that tend to matter, especially when people are trying to get to know you or they want to get to know you initially. So focusing just on those basics is a really great place to start. Then also working on letting go of your fear or perceived fear of what someone might think of you. I think that’s another barrier. We might want to show up this way, but then we’re scared of what if people expect me to be the smartest person in the room and I’m not? Or what if they ask me something and I don’t know the answer? And so then it becomes easier for us to just kind of fall back into our shell and kind of abandon this whole idea of having presence or being a leader in a room. And so get comfortable with the fact that you don’t have to know the answers to all the questions. You don’t have to know everything. Most great leaders don’t.

Stephanie Hanna:
You just have to be comfortable with the idea that you can figure it out, you can find out, you can work your network and your relationships to get the answers that you need. And so letting go of your perceived fear or rejection or however it is that you internalize it is another really great pointer in the beginning to get to a place where you’re comfortable exploring what it’s like to have presence when you walk into a room.

Scott McCarthy:
I love that. That fear aspect is absolutely crippling. When people are fearful of, you know, just being doing what they’re meant to do, as you said, you know, sometimes you’re fearful of really showing people who they are or they’re fearful of what people are going to think or what the reaction either internal to the team or external clients are. And often a lot of listeners here are entrepreneurs. So often they don’t necessarily start out expecting to become a leader. And all of a sudden their business skyrockets and they add people in, they do their hires and they wake up one day and I remember a client of mine saying this to me. He’s like, I woke up one day I realized I was leading a team of eight people, but I was scared to death every day because of all those reasons. And you got to let that fear go because if you don’t, it’s just going to crucify you in the end, right?

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes, absolutely. And, you know, lawyers and entrepreneurs do have that in common. Most of my clients are lawyers and they get into leadership positions by being a good lawyer, not by being a good leader. And then all of a sudden, here they are with a team and they don’t know what to do and they feel like a fraud or, you know, they feel unprepared. And so it is that very similar, you know, letting go of your own negative self, talk self, so that you can get to a place where you see yourself usually the way people around you see you. Most people that work for you, especially in those entrepreneurial, everyone’s hustling kind of spaces, most people see you a little better than you see yourself. And sometimes you just have to get yourself there as well.

Scott McCarthy:
The top is the loneliest place. Colin Powell said that once. But it doesn’t have to be. Instead, you can find people to talk to, people to run ideas by, people to help you figure out solutions to the problems that you’re facing right now as a leader. You see, I felt alone once and I decided to start the podcast. And with the podcast, I decided that I needed to help people like you more. So that’s why I started the Pivot for Leadership Facebook group. Leadership skills for managers to be leaders, not bosses.

Scott McCarthy:
You can find it at movingford leadership.com forward/group and come join us. It’s completely free for you to join us. And talk leadership with us day in, day out. So check us out again at movingfor leadership.com forward/group. Now back to the show.

Scott McCarthy:
Makes absolute sense. And I agree with all that for sure. It was interesting that you said that lawyers are much like entrepreneurs and I heard when you said that they just find themselves, you know, because they’re a good lawyer, to find themselves in leadership roles. I was thinking, oh, that sounds like salespeople to me. Sales. Sales are the exact same way. And I often have lost sales clients. Now you also mentioned talking about, you know, team building in your introduction and building teams.

Scott McCarthy:
And one of the things about building great teams is the communication aspect and ensuring solid communication. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on this and how leaders should be, you know, how they should communicate with their team members, how they should interact with their team members, ensure that they do build those high performing teams that we all seem to chase every day.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes. So communication is huge. And I think for me, transparency has got to be the thing that I work with people the most on. I think sometimes when you get to a certain level, you feel like maybe you’re the only one that should be privy to some information and you hold on to it and it could be for good intent. It might not be because you think you’re superior and you’re the only one that should know it. It could be, well, because we don’t know the answer yet. I don’t have a final solution. I don’t want people to worry.

Stephanie Hanna:
And so we hold the information close to ourselves and we don’t share it. And I think that is the biggest communication blunder that leaders make is that they are not open and transparent with their teams. And you can do it in a way without revealing sensitive information or proprietary information. Because that will often be the feedback I get when I make these suggestions, you know, well, they can’t know everything. So. Okay, that may be true. Let’s weed out what’s truly, truly something that is not able to be shared right now. But let’s share everything else.

Stephanie Hanna:
Because when people feel like you are being honest with them, they know like and trust you. And that’s the magic trifecta that we’re all going after. We need people to know like and trust us, especially people on our teams and people that we expect to do good work for us. And so when we withhold information, they don’t trust us. If they find out about it on the back end or in some other way that you had this information and you didn’t Tell me, I don’t trust you and you need all three. And so if I don’t trust you, I start to not like you. So now I’m, you know, I’ve only got one of the three. And then I, you know, it starts to build.

Stephanie Hanna:
That’s how toxic environments start being built, you know, And I have worked in one where it didn’t appear that way on its face. Everything seemed fine. Everyone was personable and approachable and very nice and kind. But the one toxic aspect was lack of transparency. And people started to find out really big, important things through the grapevine instead of from their leader or their manager. And once you erode that trust, it’s almost impossible to rebuild it. And so that, to me, is a huge part of being a good communicator as a leader. And the other part too is making sure that you are doing it often enough.

Stephanie Hanna:
I think that something that goes hand in hand with maybe not sharing the big stuff is, excuse me, thinking that something is not big to you. And then without bad intent, you’re just not sharing it. But to other people in your organization or on your team. That news was really important for them to know, and it could have been such an easy win for you just to share it. So don’t ever think that because something is not a big deal or not important to you, others wouldn’t want to know it. Because if they feel that way, then that’s fine. They know it and they can disregard it. But if they don’t feel that way and you’ve withheld it from them, you’ve already got the card stacked against you and you’re starting to erode that really precious trust.

Stephanie Hanna:
And by sharing more, you can get ideas and solutions that you weren’t thinking of. Oftentimes we’re so in the weeds with these big decisions or with this information that we can kind of lose sight of the big picture. And by sharing it with your team, they may ask a question or have a reaction that you didn’t anticipate that gives you completely different insight into the problem or the topic. So those are probably my kind of, like, big 2 thoughts about Communication is transparency and how often you’re doing it.

Scott McCarthy:
Love it. Absolutely love it. I love the transparency of it. You don’t often hear that from guests, but it’s so true. And I often even take it further, right. Like if I have a meeting and I show up five minutes late, I will tell people why I’m late because I expect people to be there on time. But if I’M not there on time then. And they’re like, oh, the boss is late.

Scott McCarthy:
Oh, the boss, but boss expects me to be here. Then why should I keep trying to show up on time? Hey, guys, you know, all right, sorry, five minutes late. I was on an important call that just went longer with such and such a person or such and such organization or whatever. Right. It just helps build that transparency that say, yes, I acknowledge I’m late. I acknowledge I should have been here. However, this was the reason, not the excuse of why I was not.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes. And it humanizes people 100%. Yeah.

Scott McCarthy:
You know, leaders are humans. We unfortunately occasionally do make mistakes. We don’t necessarily make all the best decisions. And that goes back to your earlier other point of incorporating everybody in. There is no reason to hold information. Understanding the life where you come from and especially in law, that yes, there is confidential information. There is certain things that you can’t divulge. Roger that.

Scott McCarthy:
However, that same breath, there are ways to divulge information without breaking those confidentialities, like you said. So why hold on to it? Why not discuss things with your team? Because as you said even earlier, the leader is not necessarily the smartest person in the room on a given topic. That’s why you have a team. That is why you, you know, hire people, you empower people, you bring them in. That is why they’re there. You are there to make the best possible decision at that time with the information you have in front of you. So I love that. Now when we’re talking about teams and we’re talking about, you know, people and stuff like this, the idea of persuasion comes up.

Scott McCarthy:
I know you lawyers are all down, down into that realm and it’s often a great tool because sometimes you need to be persuasive to inspire and motivate all those good things. So let’s talk about that for a bit, shall we? You know.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yeah.

Scott McCarthy:
What is persuasion in your terms? And how can leaders be effective at using this tool in order to achieve the results that they need to achieve or want to achieve?

Stephanie Hanna:
Yeah. So persuasion to me is really about consensus thing and trying to get people on the same page. And it doesn’t always have to be my page. Right. I think good persuasion is just trying to get everyone to kind of row in the same direction and to realize that even if it’s not your way, getting everyone on board is probably in most situations, not all, but in most situations getting everyone on board is probably more important than having your specific solution be the solution. Because the long term dynamics of the team depend more on consensus and camaraderie and having everyone feel like the decision is good, more so than people just following what you’re saying. And so it’s really about listening, asking questions, finding out why someone likes or dislikes something. Because more often than you think, just by asking those questions and getting that information, you can alleviate the fear or the concern that was raised.

Stephanie Hanna:
A lot of times when people don’t have the answers to something, they fill in the gaps themselves, which is why I think transparency and communication is so important. But when you’re trying to persuade someone and they don’t have all the answers, they make up the rest of the story. And so if you can kind of flesh out what are the sticking points, where are the barriers, you can find that maybe they just don’t have all the information, maybe you didn’t do a great job communicating. And so they don’t have all the information. And you can start filling in those holes. And that can help change their perspective or, you know, why they’re feeling a certain way. So I think, you know, I know sometimes lawyers get a bad rap because, you know, we’re like pounding our fists on the table kind of persuasion. But I like to think of it more as consensus building, getting everyone on the same page, trying to find a resolution that everyone can live with.

Stephanie Hanna:
You know, that happens a lot from the client’s perspective, even, you know, in the courtroom. I think courtrooms have the. Maybe the image, right, of two parties fighting. And in some cases, yes, right, you’re going to trial, you have to go that route. But for the most part, it’s the court and the judge and the lawyers trying to help two parties come to some consensus, come to some agreement that they can both live with. And I think that’s really similar in team building dynamics. It’s how can we just get everyone on the same page so we can all move forward in the same direction.

Scott McCarthy:
I love that part where you said, maybe it’s not even necessarily the way you’re thinking, essentially, right, the direction you want to go. Because often leaders have this idea in their mind. They’re like, okay, we’re going to go this route. We have this problem. We’re going to solve. Walk in, like, okay, folks, here’s the problem. This is the way I’m thinking. And all of a.

Scott McCarthy:
Suddenly, 15 hands pop up and they’re like, hey, boss, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Why are we going that way? Why don’t we go this way? Et cetera, et cetera. And all. Suddenly it’s like, holy smokes. Back to earlier. No, I’m not the smartest dude in the room or do that in the room. Those are some great ideas. I really like this one. I would like to merge that one with Toms over there.

Scott McCarthy:
And. Right. Suddenly persuasion doesn’t come get onside with me. It comes. Okay, how can we make the best. Get everybody on side to the best possible option here, which isn’t even mine.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes, yes. And when you have that vision that you’re truly a leader, Right. You’re looking out for the best interest of your organization or your team. And sometimes the best interest is taking a little bit of everyone’s ideas and making sure everyone’s on the same page.

Scott McCarthy:
Yep. For sure. Love it. Absolutely love it. And now, you know, going beyond that, leaders need to use this. These tools when they’re explaining the vision overall, when they’re talking about their company’s or organization’s mission. What are some great tips you have out there for using persuasion? When we’re doing that, when we’re using. When we’re going in front of everybody saying, okay, this is the vision.

Scott McCarthy:
This is where we’re going. This is our mission. Everyone, let’s rally behind this and move forward.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yeah. So I think the first step is you have to really believe it. I think sometimes people get into trouble when they start trying to sell something that they don’t wholeheartedly believe in. And so figuring out a way for you to get really comfortable with the direction and making sure that you’re able to convey that. And I think, you know, a lot of it is not like forcing things down people’s throats. Nobody likes that. I think the most persuasive people are probably the people who are the least aggressive with the way that they’re sharing the information. I’m sure there are some, you know, salespeople that have actual names and titles for what I’m talking about, but just that concept of just sharing information in a way that lets people come to it instead of you trying to shove it at them, I think that always goes over better and put yourself in their position.

Stephanie Hanna:
If someone was trying to persuade you of something or get you to rally behind a certain cause, how do you want that information delivered to you? Most often, you probably don’t want them to tell you why this is the right way, the only way, and every other way is terrible. Right. But you want them to share the information and give you time to digest it and let you arrive at the same conclusion yourself. And if something truly is a good idea and makes sense, most people can get there on their own. Most reasonable people can get there on their own, or with a little bit of guidance or nudging. Usually it’s the ideas that are maybe not so great that you have to kind of force people to buy into. And maybe that’s a great sign for you that maybe it’s not a great idea. Right.

Stephanie Hanna:
If it’s so hard to convince everyone to get on board, why is that? What are the barriers? What am I missing? And maybe using that from a leadership perspective to say, hey, if everyone’s not on board or most of the people are not on board, like, why not? And what am I missing? And what can I do to maybe strengthen this idea so that some of those concerns are alleviated?

Scott McCarthy:
No, that’s a really great point. You know, if it feels like you’re pushing a boulder uphill backwards, then it is time to look internal. It is time to look at what you’re planning on doing or trying to do and all that jazz. So definitely great points there for sure. Stephanie, it’s been a great conversation. I’ve truly enjoyed every second of it. As we wind down here now, I got a couple last questions for you. The first being a question I asked all the guests here at Moving Forward Leadership.

Scott McCarthy:
And that is, according to you, Stephanie Hannah, what makes a great leader?

Stephanie Hanna:
So to me, a great leader is someone that people know, like and trust. And the way that they get to know you is by sharing, sharing things about yourself and letting people in, being approachable so that people can ask you those questions. And that plays into like and trust. They all, one comes after the other. And so a great leader is someone who is approachable, who is open, who knows that they’re not the smartest person in the room, and is really working to make people around them better and stronger. And from that, they become better and stronger.

Scott McCarthy:
Awesome. I love it. Absolutely love it. Finally, how can people find you? How can they follow you? How can they be part of your journey?

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes. So I’m on LinkedIn at Stephanie Hannah, and TheOther85.net is my business website. And. And those are probably the two places I’m most active. Um, you can also find me on Instagram and Facebook. Um, but I probably do my most sharing of tips and information on LinkedIn and then the website has my email and I will be more than happy to connect and have a conversation with anyone.

Scott McCarthy:
As always, for you to listener, it’s easy. Just go to movingford leadership.com forward/144144 and the links are in the show. Notes. Stephanie, again, thanks for coming up. Talking to our leaders out there, telling them the power of persuasion, how to effectively come out and show presence and all these, these are such great tools for leaders out there, especially those who are new, those who didn’t expect to be in a leadership role yet found themselves in that leadership role. And those are the people that I’m here to serve. So thanks again for coming out.

Stephanie Hanna:
Yes, thank you for having me. I had a great time chatting with you.

Scott McCarthy:
All right, that’s all I got for.

Scott McCarthy:
You fine folks today. I hope you enjoyed the show, hope you enjoyed the interview, and most importantly, I hope you got something out of it. And if you did, remember, R squared, S squared, right? Write and review the show so that it gets a little bit more notice, a bit more. But most importantly, I can help more.

Scott McCarthy:
People because that’s what I’m here for.

Scott McCarthy:
That’S what my guests are here for, is to help more people become better leaders and not being bosses, right? So remember that. R squared rate and view s Share the show Share this show with someone who you think can relate to the podcast as a whole and today’s topic. And then finally, subscribe. Subscribe so that you never miss another episode. And you can do that via your podcast playing app of choice through moving forwardleadership.com subscribe. That’s it for today, ladies and gentlemen. And as always, stop bossing and start leading.

Scott McCarthy:
Take care now. Sam.